The AM-GM Inequality - Sohrab Proposition 2.1.25 ....

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Discussion Overview

The discussion revolves around the proof of Proposition 2.1.25 from Houshang H. Sohrab's "Basic Real Analysis," specifically focusing on the application of mathematical induction in proving the AM-GM inequality. Participants explore the nuances of the proof process and its alignment with standard induction strategies.

Discussion Character

  • Technical explanation
  • Debate/contested
  • Mathematical reasoning

Main Points Raised

  • One participant questions the validity of the proof process used by Sohrab, noting that it deviates from the usual mathematical induction strategy by assuming the inequality for powers of 2.
  • Another participant clarifies that the proof consists of two parts: one part uses induction on \(m\) to show \(G_{2^m} \leq A_{2^m}\), while the second part establishes that if the result holds for \(n=2^m\), it holds for all smaller positive values of \(n\).
  • A different participant argues that proving a statement by induction does not always require proving the base case \(P(0)\) and the step \(P(n) \to P(n+1)\), suggesting that a different predicate \(Q(m)\) can be chosen for the induction process.
  • Participants discuss the challenges of identifying the appropriate predicate for induction, providing examples from other mathematical contexts, such as Fibonacci numbers.
  • There is a reiteration of the idea that once \(Q(m)\) is established for all natural \(m\), it can be deduced that \(G_n \leq A_n\) for all \(n\) without further induction.

Areas of Agreement / Disagreement

Participants express differing views on the proof process, with some supporting the approach taken by Sohrab and others questioning its adherence to standard induction methods. The discussion remains unresolved regarding the validity of the proof strategy.

Contextual Notes

Participants highlight the complexity of defining the induction statement and the potential for multiple valid approaches to proving the inequality, indicating that the proof's reliance on powers of 2 may not be universally accepted.

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I am reading Houshang H. Sohrab's book: "Basic Real Analysis" (Second Edition).

I am focused on Chapter 2: Sequences and Series of Real Numbers ... ...

I need help with the proof of Proposition 2.1.25 ...

Proposition 2.1.25 reads as follows:View attachment 7071
View attachment 7072In the above proof, Sohrab appears to be using mathematical induction ... BUT ... he proves the inequality for $$n= 2$$, but then, in the inductive step, instead of assuming the inequality is true for $$n$$ and then proving it is true for $$n+1$$ ... Sohrab assumes the inequality is true for $$n = 2^m$$ and then proceeds to prove it true for $$2n = 2^{ m+1}$$ ... then finishes the proof by picking an $$m$$ such that $$n \lt 2^m$$ and establishing the inequality ...
My questions are as follows:

What is the valid proof process here ... ?

How does the proof process fit with the usual mathematical induction strategy ...Peter
 
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Peter said:
What is the valid proof process here ... ?

How does the proof process fit with the usual mathematical induction strategy ...
The proof consists of two separate parts. The first part proves by induction on $m$ that $$G_{2^m} \leqslant A_{2^m}$$, using the "usual mathematical induction strategy".

The second part (which does not require induction at all) shows that if the result holds for $n=2^m$ then it also holds for any smaller (positive) value of $n$. Since every natural number is less than some power of $2$, it follows that the result holds for all $n$.
 
This is standard mathematical induction. If you need to prove some statement $\forall n\,P(n)$ by induction, it does not mean that you necessarily have to prove $P(0)$ and $\forall n\,(P(n)\to P(n+1))$. More precisely, when one says that they is going to prove some claim by induction, the first thing they have to provide is what I call the induction statement, i.e., some predicate $Q(m)$. This may or may not coincide with the original predicate $P(n)$. Once $Q(m)$ is fixed, the proof by induction proceeds by proving $Q(0)$ and $\forall m\,(Q(m)\to Q(m+1))$. Thus one gets $\forall m\,Q(m)$. Then they have to prove $(\forall m\,Q(m))\to(\forall n\,P(n))$.

Guessing the predicate $Q(m)$ from the original $P(n)$ is sometimes nontrivial. For example, to prove the property $P(n)\equiv f_{2n+1}=f_{n}^2+f_{n+1}^2$ of Fibonacci numbers one has to generalize it to $Q(m)\equiv f_{m+n+1}=f_mf_n+f_{m+1}f_{n+1}$; otherwise the induction step does not go through. Then once we have $\forall m\,Q(m)$ for each $n$, we set $m=n$.

So instead of proving $\forall n\,P(n)$ in a standard way, one may choose another parameter, such as $\lfloor n/2\rfloor$ or the number of prime divisors of $n$, and perform induction on this parameter. In the latter case this means choosing $Q(m)$ to be the following statement: $P(n)$ holds for all $n$ that are factored into $m$ prime divisors.

In the AM-GM inequality $Q(m)$ is $G_{2^m}\le A_{2^m}$, and once this is proved for all natural $m$, we deduce from it (without induction) that $G_n\le A_n$ for all $n$.
 
Opalg said:
The proof consists of two separate parts. The first part proves by induction on $m$ that $$G_{2^m} \leqslant A_{2^m}$$, using the "usual mathematical induction strategy".

The second part (which does not require induction at all) shows that if the result holds for $n=2^m$ then it also holds for any smaller (positive) value of $n$. Since every natural number is less than some power of $2$, it follows that the result holds for all $n$.

Thanks Opalg ... that clarifies the matter a great deal ...

Appreciate your help ...

Peter

- - - Updated - - -

Evgeny.Makarov said:
This is standard mathematical induction. If you need to prove some statement $\forall n\,P(n)$ by induction, it does not mean that you necessarily have to prove $P(0)$ and $\forall n\,(P(n)\to P(n+1))$. More precisely, when one says that they is going to prove some claim by induction, the first thing they have to provide is what I call the induction statement, i.e., some predicate $Q(m)$. This may or may not coincide with the original predicate $P(n)$. Once $Q(m)$ is fixed, the proof by induction proceeds by proving $Q(0)$ and $\forall m\,(Q(m)\to Q(m+1))$. Thus one gets $\forall m\,Q(m)$. Then they have to prove $(\forall m\,Q(m))\to(\forall n\,P(n))$.

Guessing the predicate $Q(m)$ from the original $P(n)$ is sometimes nontrivial. For example, to prove the property $P(n)\equiv f_{2n+1}=f_{n}^2+f_{n+1}^2$ of Fibonacci numbers one has to generalize it to $Q(m)\equiv f_{m+n+1}=f_mf_n+f_{m+1}f_{n+1}$; otherwise the induction step does not go through. Then once we have $\forall m\,Q(m)$ for each $n$, we set $m=n$.

So instead of proving $\forall n\,P(n)$ in a standard way, one may choose another parameter, such as $\lfloor n/2\rfloor$ or the number of prime divisors of $n$, and perform induction on this parameter. In the latter case this means choosing $Q(m)$ to be the following statement: $P(n)$ holds for all $n$ that are factored into $m$ prime divisors.

In the AM-GM inequality $Q(m)$ is $G_{2^m}\le A_{2^m}$, and once this is proved for all natural $m$, we deduce from it (without induction) that $G_n\le A_n$ for all $n$.
Hi Evgeny ...

... thanks for a really informative post ...

... still reflecting on what you have said ...

Appreciate your help ...

Peter
 

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