The Belinfante_rosenfeld tensor

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Discussion Overview

The discussion revolves around the derivation and properties of the Belinfante-Rosenfeld version of the Stress-Energy Tensor (SET), focusing on the conservation and symmetry aspects of the tensor. Participants explore the implications of Noether's theorem and the definitions of the canonical and Belinfante-Rosenfeld tensors.

Discussion Character

  • Technical explanation
  • Debate/contested
  • Mathematical reasoning

Main Points Raised

  • Michael seeks clarification on the derivation of the Belinfante-Rosenfeld tensor and questions the presence of additional terms in the Wikipedia article compared to his understanding.
  • Some participants propose that the definition of the Belinfante-Rosenfeld tensor does not have to be the simple average of the canonical tensor and can include additional terms to ensure conservation.
  • Sam introduces a formulation involving an antisymmetric tensor F and discusses its implications for symmetry and conservation of the tensor.
  • Michael questions whether the antisymmetric part of the tensor is conserved and whether the symmetric part can be simply defined as the average of the canonical tensor.
  • Sam argues that the construction of the F-tensor is necessary to ensure conservation, as the antisymmetric part of the canonical tensor does not guarantee conservation on its own.

Areas of Agreement / Disagreement

Participants express differing views on the definitions and implications of the Belinfante-Rosenfeld tensor, particularly regarding conservation and symmetry. There is no consensus on the best approach to defining the tensor or the implications of the antisymmetric part.

Contextual Notes

Some assumptions about the properties of the tensors and the conditions for conservation are not fully resolved, particularly regarding the behavior of the antisymmetric components under differentiation.

Michael_1812
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Hi guys,

Can anyone please help me to grasp a minor detail in the derivation of the Belinfante-Rosenfeld version of the Stress-Energy Tensor (SET) ?

To save type, I refer to the wiki webpage http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Belinfante–Rosenfeld_stress–energy_tensor

Using the Noether Theorem, it is indeed easy to arrive at the conservation of the tensor M.

And yes, therefrom we indeed obtain

μ Sμγλ = Tλγ - Tγλ

Now, the canonical SET can be expressed as a sum of its symmetrical and antisymmetrical parts:

Tγλ

= (Tγλ + Tλγ)/2 + (Tγλ -Tλγ)/2

= TγλB + (Tγλ - Tλγ)/2

As we have just seen, the antisymmetric part can be expressed through the spin tensor, whence we obtain:

Tμγ = TγλB - ∂μ Sμγλ/2

However, this is not what we see in the article in Wikipedia. There, two more terms are present:

TγλB = Tγλ + ∂μ(Sγλμ + Sλγμ - Sμλγ)/2

I don't think this is in error, because I saw those extra two terms also in the Relativity book by M. Gasperini /which is a good book, except that sometimes the author skips parts of the proof, clearly overestimating the abilities of an average reader/.

Could someone please tell me how the two extra terms have shown up in the above formula?

Many thanks!

Michael
 
Last edited:
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Further to my question.

I certainly understanding that TγλB should not necessarily be defined as (Tγλ + Tλγ)/2 .

We are always free to add a full divergence. And we should add it, to make sure that the result be conserved

Therefore it is possible that TγλB is defined not as (Tγλ + Tλγ)/2 but in a more complex way, via

(Tγλ + Tλγ)/2 = TγλB - (∂μSλγμ + ∂μSγλμ )/2

But then what is the advantage of this definition? It is not apparently obvious to me that it guarantees conservation of TγλB.

Nor is it clear to me why the simpler definition of TγλB as (Tγλ + Tλγ)/2 would fail to warrant conservation.
 
Last edited:
Michael_1812 said:
Further to my question.

I certainly understanding that TγλB should not necessarily be defined as (Tγλ + Tλγ)/2 .

We are always free to add a full divergence. And we should add it, to make sure that the result be conserved

Therefore it is possible that TγλB is defined not as (Tγλ + Tλγ)/2 but in a more complex way, via

(Tγλ + Tλγ)/2 = TγλB - (∂μSλγμ + ∂μSγλμ )/2

But then what is the advantage of this definition? It is not apparently obvious to me that it guarantees conservation of TγλB.

Nor is it clear to me why the simpler definition of TγλB as (Tγλ + Tλγ)/2 would fail to warrant conservation.

Start from the necessary and sufficient condition of Lorentz invariance. That is

<br /> T_{ \nu \mu } = T_{ \mu \nu } + \partial^{ \sigma } S_{ \sigma \mu \nu }, \ \ (1)<br />
where
S_{ \sigma \mu \nu } = - S_{ \sigma \nu \mu }.

So, let us write S_{ \sigma \mu \nu } as

S_{ \sigma \mu \nu } = F_{ \sigma \mu \nu } - F_{ \sigma \nu \mu }, \ \ (2)

and try to determine F_{ \sigma \mu \nu } later. Inserting (2) in (1), we find
<br /> T_{ \mu \nu } + \partial^{ \sigma } F_{ \sigma \mu \nu } = T_{ \nu \mu } + \partial^{ \sigma } F_{ \sigma \nu \mu }.<br />
Clearly, this is nothing but the statement that the object
<br /> \mathcal{ T }_{ \mu \nu } \equiv T_{ \mu \nu } + \partial^{ \sigma } F_{ \sigma \mu \nu },<br />
is symmetric. Next, translation invariance implies \partial \cdot T = 0. Thus
<br /> \partial^{ \mu } \mathcal{ T }_{ \mu \nu } = \partial^{ \mu } \partial^{ \sigma } F_{ \sigma \mu \nu }.<br />
So, to preserve translation invariance (the two tensors must be physically equivalent), we must have
\partial^{ \mu } \partial^{ \sigma } F_{ \sigma \mu \nu } = 0.
This will be the case if
F_{ \sigma \mu \nu } = - F_{ \mu \sigma \nu }. \ \ \ (3)

Now the two tensorial equations (2) and (3) can be solved. The solution is
<br /> F_{ \sigma \mu \nu } = \frac{ 1 }{ 2 } ( S_{ \sigma \mu \nu } - S_{ \mu \sigma \nu } + S_{ \nu \mu \sigma } ).<br />

Sam
 
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Dear Sam,
Many thanks! I agree with your derivation.

You have built such an F that the sum Tγλ + ∂μ Fμγλ is both conserved and symmetrical.

Now, suppose I go a different way and extract directly the symmetrical part out of the canonical SET:

Tγλ

= (Tγλ + Tλγ)/2 + (Tγλ -Tλγ)/2

= (Tγλ + Tλγ)/2 - ∂μ Sμγλ/2

In this case, the half-sum will be symmetric.

Why then wouldn't we simply appoint the symmetric half-sum to play the role of the new SET ?

The total T is conserved, and I presume that the antisymmetric part - ∂μ Sμγλ/2 is conserved also (is it not??)

Then the symmetric half-sum must be conserved too.

Or am I wrong, and the antisymmetric part - ∂μ Sμγλ/2 is not conserved?

Many thanks,

Michael
 
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Michael_1812 said:
Dear Sam,
Many thanks! I agree with your derivation.

You have built such an F that the sum Tγλ + ∂μ Fμγλ is both conserved and symmetrical.

Now, suppose I go a different way and extract directly the symmetrical part out of the canonical SET:

Tγλ

= (Tγλ + Tλγ)/2 + (Tγλ -Tλγ)/2

= (Tγλ + Tλγ)/2 - ∂μ Sμγλ/2

In this case, the half-sum will be symmetric.

Why then wouldn't we simply appoint the symmetric half-sum to play the role of the new SET ?

The total T is conserved, and I presume that the antisymmetric part - ∂μ Sμγλ/2 is conserved also (is it not??)

Then the symmetric half-sum must be conserved too.

Or am I wrong, and the antisymmetric part - ∂μ Sμγλ/2 is not conserved?

Many thanks,

Michael

I made it clear why we need to construct the F-tensor. We need an object that is antisymmetric in the FIRST TWO indeces so that it vanishes when operating with the second \partial. The \partial^{ \mu } \partial^{ \sigma } S_{ \sigma \mu \nu } is not zero because S is not antisymmetric in ( \sigma \mu ). For this reason, your symmtrized T is not conserved.
 
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Dear Sam,

Many thanks for your time and help !

Now I understand this.

Michael
 

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