The Difference Between "Electric" and "Electronic."

[zoobyshoe]

At some point in the history of technology something happened whereby some devices that operate by electricity became known as "electronic" devices while others remained merely "electric" devices. The latter are obviously simpler, but it's not clear to me where the cut off between the two should be placed, or if there even is a hard line between them. Could be there's more of a gray area where you can't really say a thing is one or the other.

The wiki article on electronics seems good to me, but has been flagged as needing citations. Additionally, it said something different not three weeks ago than it says today. Three weeks ago it held the diode as the first electronic component, now it claims it is the triode.

Anyway, what's your understanding of the difference? Why do you call a certain device electric while another is more aptly called electronic?

 

[Student100]

I had always just referred to things related to power generation as electric, while things that ran on power as electronic.

I don't think there's any stiff guideline here, the two words are nearly synonymous.

 

[nsaspook]

Electric IRT devices to me implies something that depends on the physics of EM energy directly for it's operation. An induction electric motor needs no electronics to work nor does a simple dipole antenna but a typical DC brushless motor while 'electric' needs electronics or some sort of control system that adds a layer to modify a devices EM characteristics indirectly for it to operate.

 

[russ_watters]

To me, "electric" contains no control logic whereas "electronic" does. A light switch is electric, a dimmer switch electronic.

 

[zoobyshoe]

To me, "electric" contains no control logic whereas "electronic" does. A light switch is electric, a dimmer switch electronic.

What do you mean by "control logic?"

 

[Bystander]

Electric:passive::electronic:active.

 

[Enigman]

Electronics has active components which are largely semiconductor based. Electrical deals with passive components like transformers, generators, motors etc.

wiki says-
Electronics is distinct from electrical and electro-mechanical science and technology, which deal with the generation, distribution, switching, storage, and conversion of electrical energy to and from other energy forms using wires, motors, generators, batteries, switches, relays, transformers, resistors, and other passive components. This distinction started around 1906 with the invention by Lee De Forest of the triode, which made electrical amplification of weak radio signals and audio signals possible with a non-mechanical device. Until 1950 this field was called "radio technology" because its principal application was the design and theory of radio transmitters, receivers, and vacuum tubes.

Today, most electronic devices use semiconductor components to perform electron control.

Tl;Dr- Electronics are things with semiconductors and vacuum tubes.

Control logic AFAIK doesn't come in at all and the term's used only in softwares. Though digital logic is certainly hardware related.

 

[Silicon Waffle]

Electronic device incorporates "small" components (eg diodes, transistors installed on...boards)
Electrical device includes larger components (e.g lamp, switch, resistors installed on... walls)

 

[russ_watters]

What do you mean by "control logic?"

Components that make non-mechanical changes to the flow of electricity in the circuit. A light switch is strictly mechanical. A modern dimmer switch utilizes a triac: an electrical trigger signal controls the output.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/TRIAC

Perhaps another way to say it is that changes in an electrical signal cause other changes in another electrical signal. Unlike an "electrical" component, which pretty much does one thing only, when a human adjusts it directly.

 

[zoobyshoe]

Components that make non-mechanical changes to the flow of electricity in the circuit. A light switch is strictly mechanical. A modern dimmer switch utilizes a triac: an electrical trigger signal controls the output.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/TRIAC

Perhaps another way to say it is that changes in an electrical signal cause other changes in another electrical signal. Unlike an "electrical" component, which pretty much does one thing only, when a human adjusts it directly.

O.K. Thanks!

 

[russ_watters]

Control logic AFAIK doesn't come in at all and the term's used only in softwares. Though digital logic is certainly hardware related.

Many older HVAC controls and still some newer HVAC controls utilize electronic-only control logic. If you're saying that it doesn't have to be that complicated to still be considered "electronic", I might agree, it's just a level/method of control issue. I don't want to split an unnecessary hair.

A basic "electronic" component would be a relay: you can manually flip a switch or a thermostat will flip a switch, then that circuit sends a 24V signal to a relay (solenoid) that flips another, larger switch to turn-on the 240V condensing unit.

 

[nsaspook]

Electric:passive::electronic:active.

It depends on the meaning of passive and active.
Is a magnetic amp passive or active? It's not 'electronic' or mechanical in the sense that we use that word today but we did use those devices to create AM radio transmitter signals, computer logic circuits for a time and today are used in SMPS voltage regulators to amplify a low-level analog error signal. It posses the properties of amplification (signal *and* a power source feeding it) that we use for active devices. What about core memory? We can design completely electromechanical systems that operate as computers.

 

[jobyts]

Is an LED bulb electric or electronic?

 

[256bits]

Is an LED bulb electric or electronic?

I would say Electric.
Even though it is classified as acting as a solid state device, the output of the device is not a function of the amplification or control of an electric signal. Same reason the diode was removed from the Wiki article as being electronic.

 

[zoobyshoe]

Same reason the diode was removed from the Wiki article as being electronic.

How are you determining this? I can't make sense of the revision history page.

 

[256bits]

How are you determining this? I can't make sense of the revision history page.

I don't know which wiki to which you refer.

Should a component by itself ( transistors, diodes, triodes, resistors, ... ) be classified as strictly "electronic". Some are, but is that where the meaning of the word comes from.

Perhaps it is the circuit itself that makes it electronic.

For example,
A low pass filter with resistors and capacitors, which are not active elements, does something to the input waveform and outputs a waveform not an exact duplicate, depending upon the frequency of the waveform.
Digitize the input, pass it through a digital filter with the same characteristics as the RC circuit, and obtain the same output.
Now put both circuits in a black box and try to tell the difference between one or the other.

One giveaway is the separate power input into the black box to run the second circuit.

 

[Astronuc]

IEEE has a list of definitions of electrical components/devices and electronic components from which one has to infer the meaning of 'electric/electrical' and 'electronic'.

http://dictionary.ieee.org/index/e-3.html
electric - Containing, producing, arising from, actuated by, or carrying electricity, or designed to carry electricity and capable of so doing. Examples: Electric eel, energy, motor, vehicle, wave.

electric components - The electric equipment, assemblies, and conductors that together form the electric power systems.

electrical equipment - A general term that is applied to materials, fittings, devices, fixtures, and apparatus that are a part of, or are used in connection with, an electrical installation. This includes the electrical power generating system; substations; distribution systems including cable and wiring; utilization equipment; and associated control, protective, and monitoring devices.

http://dictionary.ieee.org/index/e-4.html
electronic device - An electronic machine, usually a commercial product, that people commonly use and interact with in their work or home life. In this standard, “device” is used as a shorthand for “electronic device.”

electronic equipment - In a generic sense, this refers to all analog and digital semiconductor-based equipment including data processing, telecommunications, process measurement and control, and other related electronic equipment and systems.

It seems that electronic refers to controlling the flow of electrical systems, while electrical refers to systems that generate, transmit or use electric current.

Passive would refer to components like resistors, while active would refer to capacitors and inductors.

I believe electrical device and electronic device could both refer to thyristors or controlled rectifiers - depending.

Relays may be passive or active.

 

[nsaspook]

Normally we classify resistors, capacitors and inductors as passive devices as we use the passive sign convention of voltage and current for all these devices. They (LCR) can have complex current and voltage relationships like a motor but it's still electric.

 

[Astronuc]

Normally we classify resistors, capacitors and inductors as passive devices as we use the passive sign convention of voltage and current for all these devices. They (LCR) can have complex current and voltage relationships like a motor but it's still electric.

I stand corrected.

An active device is any type of circuit component with the ability to electrically control electron flow (electricity controlling electricity). In order for a circuit to be properly called electronic, it must contain at least one active device. Components incapable of controlling current by means of another electrical signal are called passive devices. Resistors, capacitors, inductors, transformers, and even diodes are all considered passive devices. Active devices include, but are not limited to, vacuum tubes, transistors, silicon-controlled rectifiers (SCRs), and TRIACs. A case might be made for the saturable reactor to be defined as an active device, since it is able to control an AC current with a DC current, but I’ve never heard it referred to as such. The operation of each of these active devices will be explored in later chapters of this volume.

http://www.allaboutcircuits.com/textbook/semiconductors/chpt-1/active-versus-passive-devices/

 

[jack476]

Anyway, what's your understanding of the difference? Why do you call a certain device electric while another is more aptly called electronic?

Electric: makes use of electrical and magnetic forces in any capacity.

Electronic: makes use of "electronic" properties, ie, the physics of electrons, such as energy levels and band gaps. The "naive" explanation I've heard is that electronic machines are those where "electricity controls electricity", that is that they work by way of electrically-powered components manipulating electrical signals. They specifically are the machines that are both powered by electricity and manipulate electricity, rather than just using electricity to do physical work directly (ie a motor or light bulb).

 

[nsaspook]

Electricity today is less a thing and more of a subject of study in a textbook. Electric covers all aspects as a field of science. People are Electrical Engineers who study Electrical Science. We know that Physics has a specific definition of electricity that is not a form on energy (electricity and electrical energy are two different things) charge measured in coulombs, energy measured in joules.

IMO "Electronic" is a subset of "Electric", not distinct from it (all electronic devices are also electrical devices). Electronics is a technology that uses electrical principles so people who specialize in that are commonly called Electronic Technicians. At the top of the field of electronics they have detailed knowledge of the technology in operation that's hard to obtain and predict with even the most detailed knowledge of electrical science.