The Fall of Classical Physics: From Newton to Einstein

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Discussion Overview

The discussion revolves around the definitions and implications of classical physics in relation to modern physics, particularly quantum mechanics and relativity. Participants explore the boundaries of classical physics, its applicability, and how modern theories extend or refine classical concepts.

Discussion Character

  • Exploratory
  • Debate/contested
  • Conceptual clarification

Main Points Raised

  • Some participants define classical physics as encompassing all physics prior to the development of quantum physics and relativity around 1900.
  • Others argue that classical physics has not been "proven wrong" but rather developed further, suggesting a continuum rather than a strict replacement.
  • One viewpoint suggests that classical physics deals with phenomena that can be directly experienced and manipulated, while modern physics addresses extremes that classical physics struggles with.
  • A participant raises the question of specific phenomena that classical physics may not handle accurately, prompting further exploration of its limitations.
  • Another participant presents a classical problem involving charged particles and highlights inconsistencies that arise when applying different transformation principles, suggesting a need for relativistic corrections.
  • Some participants propose that classical physics serves as an approximation of modern physics, particularly in everyday contexts, but becomes inadequate at subatomic scales or relativistic speeds.
  • Contrasting views emerge regarding the relationship between classical and modern theories, with some asserting that classical physics remains a widely applicable and verified framework.

Areas of Agreement / Disagreement

Participants express differing views on the relationship between classical and modern physics, with no consensus on whether classical physics is an approximation of modern theories or if it retains its validity in certain contexts. The discussion remains unresolved regarding the extent to which classical physics can be considered foundational or limited.

Contextual Notes

Some claims depend on specific definitions of classical physics and modern physics, which may vary among participants. The discussion includes unresolved mathematical implications and the scope of applicability for classical theories in extreme conditions.

momentum360
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what is classical physics?and what are the theories of modern physics which have proven it wrong?
 
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"Classical Physics" is, basically, any physics from before "Quantum Physics" and "Relativity" both developed around 1900. I would not say that classical physics was "proven wrong", just developed further.
 
In my opinion, classical physics deals with phenomena we can experience and manipulate directly, with a minimum of apparatus. There are new developments in classical physics all the time.

In some cases, "modern" physics (now almost 100 years old) provides a stronger foundation for classical phenomena: the color of copper, for example. In other cases, modern physics explores physical phenomena outside of our daily experience- the very fast, cold, small, or large.
 
momentum360 said:
what is classical physics?and what are the theories of modern physics which have proven it wrong?

So now that you've been given a couple examples of the extensions to Classical Physics (especially to extend to the very small with Quantum Mechanics, and the very large with Relativity), what do you think might be some things that Classical Physics has trouble handling accurately? You can look up Quantum Mechanics and Relativity at wikipedia.org for quick summaries to help your thinking...
 
Thinking about orbital mechanics might help...
 
If you know Maxwell's equations, then try to calculate this simple classical problem:

Two small balls are charged with a charge e. They have a mass m and are a distance of r apart. What acceleration do they experience?

If you calculate this in a coordinate system where they move (Coulomb+magnetic force) you will get a different result than in a system where they stand still (only Coulomb force).
This result contradicts Galileo's transformation (which should be replaced by relativistic Lorentz transformation to achieve consistency).
 
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I think Classical Physics could be defined as an approximation of what Quantum Physics and Relativity discovered...I mean...The laws of classical physics doesn't change so much for our "order of magnitude", as a matter of fact they almost coincide with the "new physics" law... but when we handle with subatomic distances and speeds close to the speed of light...The laws of Classical Physics are no more valid.
 
It's not so much that modern theories contradict classical theories, it's that observations gathered over time are not always consistent with the theories that have been developed over time.
 
MaxPlank said:
I think Classical Physics could be defined as an approximation of what Quantum Physics and Relativity discovered...I mean...The laws of classical physics doesn't change so much for our "order of magnitude", as a matter of fact they almost coincide with the "new physics" law... but when we handle with subatomic distances and speeds close to the speed of light...The laws of Classical Physics are no more valid.

Classical physics is *not* an approximation to quantum physics, except in the limiting case of weakly interacting point particles. Classical mechanics encompasses much more that that, which unfortunately is not the impression given by introductory physics textbooks.

Classical physics is the most generally applicable, most widely verified theory of physics, without question. Classical mechanics nicely describes my drive into work today; what does quantum mechanics have to say about it?
 

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