The Grand Father paradox is flawed.

[SASGood]

I don't accept that consciousness is a sixth dimension because people with alzheimer's loose there consciousness gradually. By the time they actually die all of their ability to think has gone.

 

[frankinstein]

I think the grandfather paradox is more like a result of say, quantum teleportation in the time dimension rather than time travel in relativity sense.

Somehow, it seems that discussions have omitted the possibility that going back into time also changes our age (5th dimension), conciousness (6th dimension), or for that matter, any higher dimensions I call "states-of-being".

In everyday life, it is obvious that all the x,y,z,t dimensions alter our "state-of-being", I think we should not assume that we can retain our evolved state when we travel on the time axis. Just as x,y, z, t are all interdependant.

May I propose that perhaps time travel also reverts our state of being back to the same point on the x,y,z,t location? Hence, if the man intending to kill the grandfathe returns to the past, we would find it will not be possible since he would lose all the plans of doing so from his state-of-being.

As I explained in the first post because information in the form of the child is never destroyed the child continues "as is" preserved in the changed time line, this would include its memories, which is inclusive of behaviors.

The preservation of memories in the child subtly relates to the issue of time itself which is a contextual measure, so by the child's frame of reference the pre-changed time line is still a vivid memory...

Frank

 

[jambaugh]

The time travel cliché of the “Grand Father” paradox is logically flawed and has driven the notion of the multiverse theory.

Firstly the "Grandfather paradox" is not "flawed" it is a set of mutually inconsistent assumptions. Given they are not mutually consistent then one of the assumptions must be false. Which is a matter of opinion.

But this paradox is not the motivation behind parallel universes theories. In so far as parallel universes are taken seriously at all they are invoked by certain interpretations of quantum mechanics to preserve certain other desired assumptions which the interpreter wants to keep.

In fact matter as information can be proven to be persistent through time travel and indifferent to events that created it.

You can't "prove" anything until you have a working time machine to test. You can at best "prove" what a given theory predicts. Within what theory are you working? Classical Einsteinian GR?

So why do experts need a parallel universe to solve this paradox?

The paradox is "solved" by invalidating anyone of the assumptions used in its formulation. The most obvious is "cosmic censorship" i.e. time travel is impossible.

If you like I'll give you my "resolution". Consider say water freezing around a sphere of ice. Think of the patterns of defects in the ice as the sphere grows as "objects". There is a certain randomness to their formation but they also propagate according to some definable rules as the ice forms. Think of these rules as "dynamics" think of the ice as "the past" and think of the liquid as "the future". Now building a time machine is simply a matter of going back and melting down to a point inside the ice. Doing so "erases" all the future after this event point. The ice will refreeze consistent with the "rules" but possibly with a few artifacts from the act of resetting and using the leeway given by the randomness.

The time traveler will have whatever memory he carried with him but his history will be rewritten including his appearance in his recalled past. He must integrate himself back in the time line consistently with the laws of nature (i.e. he appearance must still conserve energy, charge, momentum etc.) so his appearance must look like a very very unlikely random accident (allowed by quantum uncertainty).

I am of course invoking a form of "meta causality" and "meta-time" in which the dynamics of the water and ice and freezing process is defined along with the dynamic physical time defined by the radius of the sphere of water and propagation of "material" defects. One then must ask the meta-question of whether a meta-time machine is possible and a meta-grandfather paradox needs resolution.

So really it doesn't resolve anything except, as with Everett's many worlds interpretation of QM, providing the speculator with a meaningless world picture into which he can integrate the assumptions he wants instead of sticking to operationally meaningful science.

 

[frankinstein]

Firstly the "Grandfather paradox" is not "flawed" it is a set of mutually inconsistent assumptions. Given they are not mutually consistent then one of the assumptions must be false. Which is a matter of opinion.

But this paradox is not the motivation behind parallel universes theories. In so far as parallel universes are taken seriously at all they are invoked by certain interpretations of quantum mechanics to preserve certain other desired assumptions which the interpreter wants to keep.

You can't "prove" anything until you have a working time machine to test. You can at best "prove" what a given theory predicts. Within what theory are you working? Classical Einsteinian GR?

The paradox is "solved" by invalidating anyone of the assumptions used in its formulation. The most obvious is "cosmic censorship" i.e. time travel is impossible.

If you like I'll give you my "resolution". Consider say water freezing around a sphere of ice. Think of the patterns of defects in the ice as the sphere grows as "objects". There is a certain randomness to their formation but they also propagate according to some definable rules as the ice forms. Think of these rules as "dynamics" think of the ice as "the past" and think of the liquid as "the future". Now building a time machine is simply a matter of going back and melting down to a point inside the ice. Doing so "erases" all the future after this event point. The ice will refreeze consistent with the "rules" but possibly with a few artifacts from the act of resetting and using the leeway given by the randomness.

The time traveler will have whatever memory he carried with him but his history will be rewritten including his appearance in his recalled past. He must integrate himself back in the time line consistently with the laws of nature (i.e. he appearance must still conserve energy, charge, momentum etc.) so his appearance must look like a very very unlikely random accident (allowed by quantum uncertainty).

I am of course invoking a form of "meta causality" and "meta-time" in which the dynamics of the water and ice and freezing process is defined along with the dynamic physical time defined by the radius of the sphere of water and propagation of "material" defects. One then must ask the meta-question of whether a meta-time machine is possible and a meta-grandfather paradox needs resolution.

So really it doesn't resolve anything except, as with Everett's many worlds interpretation of QM, providing the speculator with a meaningless world picture into which he can integrate the assumptions he wants instead of sticking to operationally meaningful science.

Your analogy of water in different states fails to realize that the information of water as a liquid is not stored in the configuration of water as ice, albiet water has behaviors which are stored in the form of subatomic particles and processes, the state of water as ice is not a point of stasis for water as a liquid. In fact the ice is a different state of water and is a form of instanced information. It doesn't matter if at some infintesimal time dt the ice was a liquid or gas for the state of water to remain as ice. So information is persistent without the need for a past. In the end the information going back in time is preserved by the mechanics of physical properties of matter, not the past that created the situation to configure the state of matter.

The whole point is once information is instanced it has no need for the past to persist, no more than a computer virus needs the initial deployment scheme to persist in your pc from past OS configurations...