News The Grassroots movement , and the Tea Party

[Evo]

McCain was not effective in the debates. He made solid arguments, but Obama clearly had the advantage when it came to personality. Also, McCain tried not to be negative - he left that to Palin.

I actually hated Obama's personality. I found him hokey and rather fake. I was really turned off when I saw him on tv at some county fair where he was jumping around on the bleachers and acting like an Evangelical preacher. He tried to play to his "audience" and it just smacked of insincerity.

Just out of curiosity, would you have voted for McCain/Lieberman?

I honestly can't say. Believe it or not, I'm not into politics at all, until it's shoved in my face and I have to decide. It was Biden that made me feel better about Obama, I was hoping Biden might take a stronger role. Is Biden still alive? I haven't seen him in a long time.

 

[WhoWee]

I actually hated Obama's personality. I found him hokey and rather fake. I was really turned off when I saw him on tv at some county fair where he was jumping around on the bleachers and acting like an Evangelical preacher. He tried to play to his "audience" and it just smacked of insincerity.

I honestly can't say. Believe it or not, I'm not into politics at all, until it's shoved in my face and I have to decide. It was Biden that made me feel better about Obama, I was hoping Biden might take a stronger role. Is Biden still alive? I haven't seen him in a long time.

IMO - Biden was a gamble (even more so in 2012). He has undeniable Washington experience, but you never know what he might say (or do). I was surprised that Hillary wasn't on the ticket.

 

[Evo]

IMO - Biden was a gamble (even more so in 2012). He has undeniable Washington experience, but you never know what he might say (or do). I was surprised that Hillary wasn't on the ticket.

Hillary was my first choice. That is one sharp lady.

 

[CAC1001]

Do you really think sane republicans would would back her?

What's ironic is that the Democrats seem terrified she could win the General election while the establishment GOP is terrified she could win the GOP Primary and then spectacularly lose the General.

She lost the election for McCain,

Palin didn't lose McCain the election. If anything, I'd say she is what prevented Obama from winning the election in what should have been a complete wipeout landslide.

even hard core Republicans came out against her because she's a nut. Of course McCain had no clue that she was crazy, but now that people know her, can she really draw non-fringe backing? I can't imagine anyone thinking this woman is mentally capable.

Hardcore Republicans came out against her due to her lacking qualification, not being a nut. This claim I have never really understood, as she strikes me as squarely a standard right-wing Republican. Now qualified in terms of knowledge on issues, that is a different story altogether, and I do not see her at all as qualified in that sense.

The polls show more Americans do not see her as qualified to be President (including Republicans), so that is an obstacle she would/will have to overcome should she seek to run for President. So she won't get backing from Independents unless she can prove to them she is knowledgeable on the issues.

Personally, I would much prefer her to President Obama though (but that's because I never viewed him as very qualified either, and I'm a center-right guy). If I had to choose between Hillary or Palin right now, however, I would probably choose Hillary.

It was Biden that made me feel better about Obama, I was hoping Biden might take a stronger role. Is Biden still alive? I haven't seen him in a long time.

Biden was selected for his foreign policy record, but during his time in the Senate, he has been wrong on quite a few of the major foreign policy issues. Obama hasn't had him dealing much with foreign policy, instead he had Biden tied up with his healthcare bill.

 

[CAC1001]

IMO - Biden was a gamble (even more so in 2012). He has undeniable Washington experience, but you never know what he might say (or do). I was surprised that Hillary wasn't on the ticket.

Not choosing Hillary as his VP was Obama's big blunder in the election, if he had chosen her, he'd have crushed McCain like a pancake.

 

[Galteeth]

And when you and a child's parent disagree about what their child should or shouldn't hear, who should consent on the child's behalf, you or the child's parent?Of course we can debate the specific age, but the principle is the same.

A little late on the reply to this one, but I think the individual (i.e., the "child") should get some say in what views they are willing to be exposed to. If they want to learn about evolution, but their parents' object, I think the child should have the right to learn what he/she wants regardless, especially considering its their future that will ultimately be impacted by the education. This is not even a case of a child making "potentially" dangerous choices, such as using drugs or having sex, simply one of them desiring access to information. Furthermore, as information becomes more freely available, the notion that a parent can realistically restrict a "child's" (I keep putting child in parentheses here, because I'm really referring to pre-teens and teenagers) access to information, on evolution, sex, politics, or anything else, is a fantasy. The most a parent can really do is explain their own views to their kids, and hopefully develop a good enough relationship that the kids have a reason to value their parents' opinions.
I am not suggesting the state should raise children, more so that children are not just mindless lumps of clay that parents have the "right" to shape however they choose.

 

[Gokul43201]

Not choosing Hillary as his VP was Obama's big blunder in the election, if he had chosen her, he'd have crushed McCain like a pancake.

In what universe does winning by a margin of 365 - 173 count as a "big blunder"?

 

[Gokul43201]

How about Angle-Bachmann for 2012? Any chance of that?

Would that be the conspiracy theory ticket?

Angle: "Obama is bringing Sharia Law to cities the US, like Dearborn MI"

Bachmann: "Obama's diverted 10% of the US Navy and booked 870 rooms in the Taj Mahal hotel at a cost of $200 million a day"

(approximate, but true, quotes)

 

[CAC1001]

In what universe does winning by a margin of 365 - 173 count as a "big blunder"?

I was thinking the popular vote, not the Electoral College, perhaps "blunder" was too strong a word though. But I think his not choosing Hillary still hurt him and took away from what would have been an even larger win.

 

[CAC1001]

Bachmann: "Obama's diverted 10% of the US Navy and booked 870 rooms in the Taj Mahal hotel at a cost of $200 million a day"

(approximate, but true, quotes)

The hotel one I could see as being accurate, but I don't see why anyone would complain there, I mean do they expect the Secret Service to just book one floor of the hotel!?

 

[WhoWee]

The hotel one I could see as being accurate, but I don't see why anyone would complain there, I mean do they expect the Secret Service to just book one floor of the hotel!?

If I recall, this article started the speculation?
http://economictimes.indiatimes.com...13-aircraft--N-button/articleshow/6874544.cms

"NEW DELHI: President Obama does not believe in traveling light. Long before the Air Force One touch down on Saturday, as many 13 US aircraft and four choppers have already flown in all kinds of equipment and 20-25 swanky cars to facilitate his stay in Mumbai and Delhi.

This is not all. As many as 34 warships, including an aircraft carrier, have taken position in the Arabian sea off the Mumbai coast as part of security arrangements for the presidential visit.

Running the show will be over 500-strong presidential staff comprising Secret Service, Marines and intelligence personnel, who will co-ordinate with the Indian para-military and police forces to make Mr Obama’s visit secure and glitch-free. The equipment being brought in by the US agencies include a communication set up and the nuclear button. "

 

[Gokul43201]

The hotel one I could see as being accurate, but I don't see why anyone would complain there, I mean do they expect the Secret Service to just book one floor of the hotel!?

Nevertheless, the hotel claim is the one that is (and has been) most easily debunked. You can not book "over 870 rooms" in a hotel that has only 294 rooms.

 

[NobodySpecial]

Bachmann: "Obama's diverted 10% of the US Navy and booked 870 rooms in the Taj Mahal hotel at a cost of $200 million a day"

Like the quote that it cost $200 million for the Canadian army security at the winter olympics.
Can you hire the US navy by the day?
Or did they have to turn down another paying gig to sit around in the Indian ocean.

 

[WhoWee]

I posted this in the "Economic Recovery" thread as well - makes me proud to be an American.

http://www.indianexpress.com/news/you-are-doing-a-tougher-job-than-me-obama-to-alam/707877/

"US President Barack Obama has lavished praise on the NGO 'Sammaan Foundation' founder Irfan Alam for his endeavour to create jobs for unskilled people by manufacturing rickshaws for livelihood and sustenance of unskilled people of Bihar.



"You are doing a tougher job than me by creating jobs for the unskilled people of your state and other parts of the country," he told reporters here quoting Obama's encouraging words to him in Mumbai yesterday.



Alam, who was part of a goup of industrialists who had met Obama, said that he had briefed the US President about his endeavour to help the rickshaw pullers to lead a dignified life by way of maximizing income, besides undertaking welfare measures for them. "

Maybe this is Obama's plan to wean people from welfare?

 

[Gokul43201]

If I recall, this article started the speculation?
http://economictimes.indiatimes.com...13-aircraft--N-button/articleshow/6874544.cms

Nope. Obviously, that article, written yesterday, can not be the source of speculation that began a few days ago. It is simply repeating the speculation of other articles. The original article is cited in the snopes page linked before.

 

[Gokul43201]

I posted this in the "Economic Recovery" thread as well - makes me proud to be an American.

http://www.indianexpress.com/news/you-are-doing-a-tougher-job-than-me-obama-to-alam/707877/

And why do you think it was worth repeating in a thread about the Tea Party?

Alam, who was part of a goup of industrialists who had met Obama, said that he had briefed the US President about his endeavour to help the rickshaw pullers to lead a dignified life by way of maximizing income, besides undertaking welfare measures for them. "

Maybe this is Obama's plan to wean people from welfare?

I'm getting tired of these fallacies! What does a privately instituted welfare measure (i.e., employee benefits) in India have to do with government welfare in the US?

 

[WhoWee]

And why do you think it was worth repeating in a thread about the Tea Party?

I'm getting tired of these fallacies! What does a privately instituted welfare measure (i.e., employee benefits) in India have to do with government welfare in the US?

Why is Obama wasting his time and our tax dollars on this nonsense? The Tea Party thread is an appropriate place to discuss the activities of our leaders that make the average voter scratch their head.

 

[OmCheeto]

Why is Obama wasting his time and our tax dollars on this nonsense? The Tea Party thread is an appropriate place to discuss the activities of our leaders that make the average voter scratch their head.

The average voter probably scratches their head because they have fleas.

Sorry if this has already been pointed out.

For some odd reason, I've been avoiding getting involved in this thread.

 

[Gokul43201]

Why is Obama wasting his time and our tax dollars on this nonsense?

Yeah, I'm sure spending a few minutes talking to someone who has doubled the incomes of 10 million impoverished families in 2 years - without any government assistance - is nonsense and a waste of taxpayer money. Heck, one might have thought this was exactly the kind of person/initiative that the Tea Party would have considered a role model.

The Tea Party thread is an appropriate place to discuss the activities of our leaders that make the average voter scratch their head.

And if the best conclusion one can draw is that a chat with an entrepreneur in India that uplifted a huge segment of low-income population without government help is somehow indicative that Obama wants more government welfare in the US ... then I can only recommend a lot more scratching.

 

[CAC1001]

From my understanding, Obama is also in India because they are one of our main allies, right?

 

[WhoWee]

Yeah, I'm sure spending a few minutes talking to someone who has doubled the incomes of 10 million impoverished families in 2 years - without any government assistance - is nonsense and a waste of taxpayer money. Heck, one might have thought this was exactly the kind of person/initiative that the Tea Party would have considered a role model.

And if the best conclusion one can draw is that a chat with an entrepreneur in India that uplifted a huge segment of low-income population without government help is somehow indicative that Obama wants more government welfare in the US ... then I can only recommend a lot more scratching.

How many US jobs have been outsourced to India?

What is the goal of this trip?

Personally, I hope Obama continues to fool himself and his supporters that he's on the right track - it will guarantee his loss in 2012.

 

[Gokul43201]

How many US jobs have been outsourced to India?

I don't know. How is that relevant? Would you like India to be considered an enemy state because jobs get outsourced there as a direct consequence of free trade?

What is the goal of this trip?

Why don't you tell us? It is you that is claiming it is nonsense.

 

[WhoWee]

I don't know. How is that relevant? Would you like India to be considered an enemy state because jobs get outsourced there as a direct consequence of free trade?

Why don't you tell us? It is you that is claiming it is nonsense.

Why is Obama in India? Is he creating jobs in the US - or is he focused on political struggles /war effort in the region?

If you want to defend his actions and dismiss the expense of his trip - then do so.

Please explain why the American people should not be outraged by his behavior.

 

[schizoid]

Why is Obama in India? Is he creating jobs in the US - or is he focused on political struggles /war effort in the region?

If you want to defend his actions and dismiss the expense of his trip - then do so.

Please explain why the American people should not be outraged by his behavior.

There seems to be some sort of rage against obama and his trip. He is on a ten day trip to SE asia, not only india. After India he's visiting indonesia, south korea and japan. I thought the trip was to build better relations including trade with these countries.

He signed 10 billion $ deals in india.

http://www.indianexpress.com/news/obama-starts-india-trip-with-10-bn-biz-deals/707603/"

 

[OmCheeto]

How many US jobs have been outsourced to India?

The other day, I thought I might have been confused as to what was be being discussed on another thread. But I think I wasn't.

http://www.thespoof.com/news/spoof.cfm?headline=s2i82480"
US President Barack Obama allegedly ... defended the charity's right to place its helpline in a location of its choice, praised its work and then refused comment on its wisdom, successfully confusing the American nation for the 3rd time in as 3 months.

What is the goal of this trip?

"[URL
... Obama India[/URL]
Welcome... News outlets are reporting ... that Obama’s trip to India will cost tax payers $200 million a day. Even more ..., there are reports that Obama’s trip will use one-tenth of the United States Navy.

Well then, it's obvious he's trying to boost someones economy.

Personally, I hope Obama continues to fool himself and his supporters that he's on the right track - it will guarantee his loss in 2012.

Gads I hope you're wrong. I'm fully invested in nearly all Goreish stocks at the moment, and see his energy independence policy would make me a pig pot of gold.


---------------------------------
I do believe I'm rapidly getting the hang of this cut, snip, paste, innuendo, lie, kind of thing.

 

[WhoWee]

There seems to be some sort of rage against obama and his trip. He is on a ten day trip to SE asia, not only india. After India he's visiting indonesia, south korea and japan. I thought the trip was to build better relations including trade with these countries.

He signed 10 billion $ deals in india.

http://www.indianexpress.com/news/obama-starts-india-trip-with-10-bn-biz-deals/707603/"

"He signed 10 billion $ deals in india." - Let's analyze this statement.

Obama was just handed one of the biggest political losses in recent history. This trip was delayed twice? Now, with all the glory of a victory tour, he takes a huge entourage on a trip to India to create jobs in the US - correct?

The linked article says "On his longest visit to any country, US President Barack Obama today announced USD 10 billion worth deals, including a USD 2 billion equipment sourcing plan of Anil Ambani Group firm Reliance Power and SpiceJet's pruchase of 30 Boeing 737 aircraft.



"As we look to India today, the United States sees an opportunity to sell our exports in one of the fastest growing markets in the world. For America this is a jobs strategy," Obama said kick-starting his Saturday-to-Monday visit to India.



Addressing a business summit, he said US companies were finalising 20-odd deals worth around USD 10 billion (nearly Rs 44,000 crore). "

My question - does anyone think these deals were negotiated this week? Does anyone believe that Obama is responsible for making these deals happen? I wonder how many of these deals were put on hold (and for how long) to coordinate with this impeccable timing?

 

[Gokul43201]

If you want to defend his actions and dismiss the expense of his trip - then do so.

I'm sorry to disappoint you - I have no plans to defend his actions in general. You are the one making claims - it is your job to justify them. Saying that Obama wants to expand welfare programs in the US because an entrepreneur in India was taking measures to improve the "welfare" of his employees is a bogus connection. Saying the trip costs $200 mill a day, when those expenses are unknown, is a bogus claim. Saying that a big fraction of the navy is being diverted away from more important responsibilities, when the Pentagon denies this, is a bogus claim. Saying that eight hundred odd rooms have been booked at a hotel that only has a third of that number of rooms is a bogus claim. I'm more than happy to simply point out exactly what looks more like "nonsense" here.

There's a wall in the Reagan Presidential library that displays the flags of all the countries that Reagan visited. Should we have someone try and justify every one of those visits? Reagan visited 12 countries during his second year in office. So far, Obama has visited 4 countries this year. And that doesn't tell us a thing about whether the trips were justified.

 

[OmCheeto]

I wonder how many of these deals were put on hold (and for how long) to coordinate with this impeccable timing?

If it were impeccable timing, he'd have done it before the election.

hmmm...

Or is it two years early?

hmmm...

Maybe Obama's learning to play the game too.

 

[Gokul43201]

I wonder how many of these deals were put on hold (and for how long) to coordinate with this impeccable timing?

It's impeccable timing to tout job growth measures just after an election?

 

[schizoid]

"He signed 10 billion $ deals in india." - Let's analyze this statement.

Obama was just handed one of the biggest political losses in recent history. This trip was delayed twice? Now, with all the glory of a victory tour, he takes a huge entourage on a trip to India to create jobs in the US - correct?My question - does anyone think these deals were negotiated this week? Does anyone believe that Obama is responsible for making these deals happen? I wonder how many of these deals were put on hold (and for how long) to coordinate with this impeccable timing?

Yes his party lost heavily in the elections, does it mean he has to cancel all visits to other foreign countries and resign from his presidency.