The great basic question of science on origin of life

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Discussion Overview

The discussion centers on the origins of life, specifically debating whether membrane compartments or non-membrane phase compartments (biophase) serve as the physical basis for the emergence of life. The scope includes theoretical perspectives, critiques of existing models, and references to relevant literature.

Discussion Character

  • Debate/contested
  • Exploratory
  • Technical explanation

Main Points Raised

  • Some participants argue that the non-membrane phase compartments are crucial for understanding the origin of life, suggesting that the membrane model lacks decisive experimental proof, particularly regarding the sodium-potassium pump.
  • Others, like Buzz, highlight the importance of works such as de Duve's "Vital Dust," which they believe provide a more detailed sequence of pre-biological steps leading to life, contrasting with Matveev's focus on non-membrane approaches.
  • A participant mentions that the paper by Matveev is paywalled, expressing frustration over the lack of accessible details and suggesting that the theories presented may be overly broad and lacking in predictive power.
  • Another viewpoint emphasizes that life and evolution require a (proto)cell, arguing that chemical evolution alone does not equate to biological evolution, thus necessitating a discussion on the physical nature of the first cell.
  • Some participants propose that early metabolic pathways could evolve without a sodium-potassium pump, referencing recent studies on alkaline hydrothermal vents as potential environments for early life.
  • Concerns are raised about the assumptions underlying the membrane model, with calls for more specific physical solutions to explain biological structures and processes.

Areas of Agreement / Disagreement

Participants express multiple competing views regarding the physical basis for the origin of life, with no consensus reached on whether membrane or non-membrane compartments are more plausible. The discussion remains unresolved, with various hypotheses and critiques presented.

Contextual Notes

Limitations include the paywall of key literature, the dependence on specific definitions of compartments, and unresolved questions regarding the experimental evidence for both membrane and non-membrane models.

  • #31
Vladimir Matveev said:
The protein matrix of a protocell similar to Fox's microspheres can adsorb amino acids from the environment non-randomly again.
Hi Vladimir:

The Wikipedia summary of Sydney Fox's experiment says that proteins were never produced.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sidney_W._Fox
One of the first experiments by Dr. Fox and Kaoru Harada that had to do with the formation of proteinoids was called Thermal Copolymerization of Amino Acids to a Product Resembling Protein. It was performed in February 1958.
The experiment did not prove that proteins were formed on primordial Earth using primarily heat, but Fox and Kaoru Harada believed it suggested that if proteinoids could be synthesized using just heat and the amino acids formed from the Miller–Urey experiment, then more research could lead to an answer to how anabolic reactions, enzymatic proteins, and nucleic acids were first formed and in turn, how the earliest forms of life originated.​
AFAIK, proteinoids have never been demonstrated to have any useful enzymatic properties.
Also AFAIK no scenario has ever been proposed for how hypothetical proteinoids with enzymatic properties could improve by mutation. In contrast, RNA sequences do mutate when reproducing, and RNA ribozymes have been demonstrated to have enzymatic properties.
Regards,
Buzz
 
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  • #32
Thread closed for Moderation...

Edit -- after a Mentor discussion, this thread will remain closed. For those interested in this work, please continue the conversation via private messages. Thank you.
 
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