The impossibility of absolute rigidity during collisions

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    Absolute Collisions
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Discussion Overview

The discussion revolves around the concept of absolute rigidity in collisions, particularly focusing on the implications of differentiable velocity and the nature of mass interactions. Participants explore theoretical scenarios involving perfectly rigid spheres and the necessity of deformation during collisions, touching on mechanics and the fundamental properties of materials.

Discussion Character

  • Exploratory
  • Technical explanation
  • Conceptual clarification
  • Debate/contested

Main Points Raised

  • One participant argues that if two perfectly rigid spheres collide, the instantaneous changes in velocity would imply infinite forces, suggesting that perfect rigidity cannot exist in reality.
  • Another participant emphasizes that compression is necessary during collisions, as it is inherent to mass interactions, and questions whether this concept is commonly taught.
  • A further contribution discusses how tension in a rope connected to a building illustrates similar deformation, where the building's molecular bonds must deform to exert force, reinforcing the idea that rigidity is not achievable.

Areas of Agreement / Disagreement

Participants generally agree on the notion that perfect rigidity is not feasible during collisions, but there are varying perspectives on the implications and the extent of deformation required. The discussion remains unresolved regarding the broader educational context of these concepts.

Contextual Notes

Limitations include assumptions about the nature of rigidity and the definitions of forces involved in collisions. The discussion does not resolve the mathematical implications of instantaneous changes in velocity or the specific conditions under which these interactions occur.

kotreny
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Let's say we have two perfectly rigid spheres. One is at rest and the other is moving toward it with some differentiable velocity. When they collide, the first sphere will start moving with infinitesimal velocity and the second will reduce its speed by an infinitesimal amount. But since the spheres can't go through each other or distort themselves at all, the respective accelerations must be instantaneous, or else there would be a short discrepancy in their velocities and the distance they each must travel.

My conclusion is that, given differentiable velocity, the colliding bodies cannot be perfectly rigid.

I'm teaching myself mechanics, so I don't know when professors remind their students of this. I think it's an interesting point that, in theory, all things must be elastic to some degree. This occurred to me just today though, and I would like to know if I'm wrong. If I'm not, please tell me who first stated it.
 
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kotreny said:
My conclusion is that, given differentiable velocity, the colliding bodies cannot be perfectly rigid.
Yes, given differentiable velocity. If the spheres have some mass, an instantaneous velocity change would mean infinite forces.
 
I thought about it, and realized that compression not only has to exist, it causes the force during a collision, or just about any mass-to-mass interaction you can think of. In fact, compression is inherent in the very nature of mass and it's ability to influence other masses. Pushing something would be theoretically impossible if your hand were completely rigid. Even atoms must be compressed to create any force.

I never thought about mass this precisely before. Is it something people are usually taught?
 
A similar deformation of supposedly rigid objects occurs with tension. Tie one end of a rope to a building. Use your hand or a machine to pull the rope with force F. The building will also pull the rope with force F, a force pointed the other way (which is why the rope doesn't accelerate.) How does the building apply a force to the rope? The molecular bonds in the building are deformed slightly, and behave as stretched springs.
 

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