The normal force on a thin stick being lifted on a surface

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Homework Help Overview

The discussion revolves around the normal force acting on a thin stick being lifted from a surface, particularly focusing on the differences in calculations when using different axes of rotation. The original poster notes discrepancies in the normal force expressions derived from using the left end versus the center of mass (CM) as the pivot point, leading to confusion about the correct interpretation of the forces involved.

Discussion Character

  • Mixed

Approaches and Questions Raised

  • Participants explore the implications of using different axes of rotation for calculating the normal force, questioning why the values differ and whether they should be equal. There are attempts to reconcile these differences through algebraic checks and discussions about torque equations.

Discussion Status

The discussion is ongoing, with participants providing algebraic checks and questioning assumptions about the stick's behavior as it begins to lift. Some participants suggest that there may be errors in calculations, while others emphasize the need for a free body diagram to clarify the forces at play. There is no explicit consensus yet on the correct approach or interpretation.

Contextual Notes

Participants note that the problem does not specify the thickness of the stick, which may affect the calculations and assumptions about the normal force. There are also references to the constraints of time in a contest setting, suggesting that the complexity of the problem may exceed typical expectations for a quick solution.

  • #91
Hak said:
This means that N goes to 0 when F_0 goes to 0
Yes, and ##F_0## is just shorthand for ##\frac 12mg##, so, for ##\beta\geq 1##, N=0 implies m=0.
 
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  • #92
Hak said:
I obtain: ##\delta F = \frac{1+\beta}{1-\beta} F_0##, or ##F = \frac{2}{1-\beta} F_0##. What does this tell me? Is there any particular information?
It says that , for ##\beta\geq 1##, assuming N can be zero gives a silly answer, so it can't go to zero.
 
  • #93
haruspex said:
Yes, and ##F_0## is just shorthand for ##\frac 12mg##, so, for ##\beta\geq 1##, N=0 implies m=0.
Why for ##\beta \ge 1## and not for only ##\beta = 1##? Thanks.
 
  • #94
Hak said:
Why for ##\beta \ge 1## and not for only ##\beta = 1##? Thanks.
Because for ##\beta>1## the equation you quoted has the form ##N=F_0+(positive factor)\delta F##.
 
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  • #95
haruspex said:
It makes sense because otherwise you have made two contradictory assumptions: ##N>0, \beta=1##. The only way both can be true is mg=0.
Reviewing post #53, I cannot understand the above statement. Why the only way to make ##N > 0## and ##\beta = 1## is ##mg = 0##? Perhaps you meant to say ##N = 0##? I cannot understand it.
 
  • #96
Hak said:
Perhaps you meant to say N=0?
Yes, good catch. Corrected.
 

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