The normal force on a thin stick being lifted on a surface

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The discussion centers on the differing expressions for the normal force acting on a thin stick being lifted at one end, depending on whether the left end or the center of mass (CM) is used as the axis of rotation. The calculations yield two different normal force values, with a discrepancy of 1/12 ma. Participants highlight that the normal force should not depend on the choice of rotation axis, suggesting errors in the algebra or assumptions made in the torque equations. The conversation also emphasizes the importance of the stick's thickness and its implications on the normal force limits, concluding that the normal force must be greater than mg/2 but less than 5/6 mg. Ultimately, the problem reveals complexities in the analysis that challenge initial assumptions about the stick's behavior.
  • #91
Hak said:
This means that N goes to 0 when F_0 goes to 0
Yes, and ##F_0## is just shorthand for ##\frac 12mg##, so, for ##\beta\geq 1##, N=0 implies m=0.
 
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  • #92
Hak said:
I obtain: ##\delta F = \frac{1+\beta}{1-\beta} F_0##, or ##F = \frac{2}{1-\beta} F_0##. What does this tell me? Is there any particular information?
It says that , for ##\beta\geq 1##, assuming N can be zero gives a silly answer, so it can't go to zero.
 
  • #93
haruspex said:
Yes, and ##F_0## is just shorthand for ##\frac 12mg##, so, for ##\beta\geq 1##, N=0 implies m=0.
Why for ##\beta \ge 1## and not for only ##\beta = 1##? Thanks.
 
  • #94
Hak said:
Why for ##\beta \ge 1## and not for only ##\beta = 1##? Thanks.
Because for ##\beta>1## the equation you quoted has the form ##N=F_0+(positive factor)\delta F##.
 
  • #95
haruspex said:
It makes sense because otherwise you have made two contradictory assumptions: ##N>0, \beta=1##. The only way both can be true is mg=0.
Reviewing post #53, I cannot understand the above statement. Why the only way to make ##N > 0## and ##\beta = 1## is ##mg = 0##? Perhaps you meant to say ##N = 0##? I cannot understand it.
 
  • #96
Hak said:
Perhaps you meant to say N=0?
Yes, good catch. Corrected.
 

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