The Paradox of Oppositely Traveling Objects in Spacetime

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Discussion Overview

The discussion centers around the nature of motion through spacetime, particularly regarding the implications of traveling in opposite directions relative to a cosmic rest frame. Participants explore concepts of four-velocity, time dilation, and the relativity of motion, with a focus on how these ideas interact in the context of special relativity.

Discussion Character

  • Exploratory
  • Technical explanation
  • Conceptual clarification
  • Debate/contested

Main Points Raised

  • Some participants assert that all objects travel through spacetime at the same speed, referring to the concept of four-velocity.
  • There is a question about the reference frame used when discussing motion through space, with one participant asking for clarification on "velocity compared to what?"
  • One participant cites Wikipedia's entry on the Cosmic Microwave Background (CMB), stating that we are moving at 627 km/sec towards Virgo with respect to the cosmic rest frame.
  • Another participant argues that relativistic time dilation depends on the relative velocity of observers, not merely on an object's speed through space.
  • Concerns are raised about potential conceptual confusion stemming from simplified explanations of relativity, particularly those attributed to Brian Greene.
  • It is noted that in an inertial reference frame, an object moving at a lower speed will have its clock ticking faster relative to a faster-moving observer's clock, emphasizing the relativity of time measurement.

Areas of Agreement / Disagreement

Participants express differing views on the implications of motion through spacetime and the nature of time dilation. There is no consensus on the interpretations of these concepts, and multiple competing views remain present in the discussion.

Contextual Notes

Limitations include the dependence on the choice of reference frames and the unresolved nature of how different interpretations of relativity may lead to confusion. The discussion does not resolve the mathematical steps involved in the claims made.

Who May Find This Useful

This discussion may be of interest to those studying special relativity, cosmology, or the philosophical implications of motion and time in physics.

dennis83704
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It is my understanding that all things travel through spacetime at the same speed.
Additionally , I am told we are moving through space at some velocity.
My question is this: If an object were made to travel in a direction opposite to our direction of motion , would that object not then be traveling through space at a slower speed? Wouldn't time pass faster for that object as it would be moving slower through space?
 
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Let's elaborate on that point a bit more. All things travel through spacetime at the same speed, or more technically, everything's "four-velocity" -- that is, the velocity at which things move in the four-dimensional spacetime -- has the same magnitude.

Then, you say that you are told we are moving through space at some velocity.

Velocity compared to what?
 
Wikipedia's entry on CMB states we are moving at 627 km/sec towards Virgo with respect to the cosmic rest frame.
 
dennis83704 said:
Wouldn't time pass faster for that object as it would be moving slower through space?
Relativistic time dilation depends on the velocity of one observer relative to another observer, not the velocity of an object relative to space.

dennis83704 said:
Wikipedia's entry on CMB states we are moving at 627 km/sec towards Virgo with respect to the cosmic rest frame.
The cosmic rest frame is simply the frame in which the CMB is not moving.
 
dennis83704 said:
It is my understanding that all things travel through spacetime at the same speed.
I think you are thinking of Brian Greene's explanation of relativity, I posted the math behind it in [post=430613]this post[/post]--I've never seen any textbook that explains relativity this way though, and it has potential to create conceptual confusion.
dennis83704 said:
Additionally , I am told we are moving through space at some velocity.
Not in any objective sense--if you pick an inertial reference frame we have some speed relative to that frame, but we have a different speed relative to other frames, and every inertial reference frame is considered equally valid. In any frame, if you take the square of your speed through space [tex]d\vec{x}/dt[/tex] and add it to the square of the rate that your clock is ticking relative to the time coordinate in that frame ([tex]d\tau / dt[/tex], what Greene calls your "speed through time"), multiplied by the speed of light squared, the sum of these terms is always equal to the speed of light squared, i.e. [tex](d\vec{x}/dt)^2 + c^2(d\tau/dt)^2 = c^2[/tex]. Greene uses the shorthand "your speed through spacetime is always c" to describe this fact, though like I said I think this has the potential to create some conceptual confusion.
dennis83704 said:
My question is this: If an object were made to travel in a direction opposite to our direction of motion , would that object not then be traveling through space at a slower speed? Wouldn't time pass faster for that object as it would be moving slower through space?
If we are using an inertial frame where your speed is nonzero, then an object moving at a lower speed in this frame (or at rest in this frame) will have its clock tick more quickly than your clock, relative to the time coordinate of this frame. But again it's all completely relative, you could analyze things from the point of view of the inertial frame where you are at rest and then it would be your clock ticking faster than the other clock.
 
Thank you all for taking the time to comment , it was very helpful.
 

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