The relationship between temperature and pressure for water?

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SUMMARY

The discussion focuses on the relationship between temperature and pressure for water in a solar collector project. Key points include the unrealistic pressure values of 100 bar before the turbine and 1.5 bar after, as well as the critical temperature of water at 510°C. Participants emphasize the importance of consulting a phase diagram for water to understand the liquid/vapor phase boundary and suggest using the Carnot engine principles to estimate work and heat transfer in the system. Accurate values for mass flow rate, temperature, and pressure are critical for the project's success.

PREREQUISITES
  • Understanding of thermodynamic principles, specifically related to water.
  • Familiarity with phase diagrams for water.
  • Knowledge of Carnot engine efficiency and calculations.
  • Experience with solar collector design and thermodynamic processes.
NEXT STEPS
  • Research the phase diagram for water to determine accurate pressure and temperature values.
  • Learn how to calculate work and heat transfer in thermodynamic systems.
  • Study the principles of the Carnot engine to understand efficiency limits.
  • Investigate methods for determining mass flow rates in fluid systems.
USEFUL FOR

Engineers, thermodynamic researchers, and students involved in solar energy projects or fluid dynamics who need to understand the relationship between temperature and pressure in water systems.

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I have been looking everywhere for some equation that relates temperature and pressure at a constant volume for water. I am doing a project where I am designing a solar collector and it's thermodynamic processes and I want to ensure my values are accurate in a controlled volume. Attached is the diagram of my project thus far. Any help with regards to a confirmation of the accuracy of these values or an equation to find more accurate ones would be appreciated. Thanks!

NOTE: These values are ones I made up, my goal is to find better more reasonable values.

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what are the fluids involved?
Is the pressure really 100 bar before the turbine and 1.5 bar after?
 
Khashishi said:
what are the fluids involved?
Is the pressure really 100 bar before the turbine and 1.5 bar after?
The top loop is water and bottom loop is your average molten salt. These values are ones I made up in a system. The 100 bar to 1 bar seems unrealistic and that's why I am trying how to find more realistic values for this project.
 
510C is above the critical temperature for water, so water will be similar to an ideal gas at that point. Liquid water is essentially incompressible. If the temperature drops to the boiling point, some steam will condense into water, bringing the pressure down, dropping the boiling point. So the boiling point will follow the temperature for a while, and you will have some combination of liquid and gas water. So look at a phase diagram for water, and take a look at w

I modified http://commons.wikimedia.org/w/index.php?title=User:Matthieumarechal&action=edit&redlink=1 's CC diagram off of wikipedia. The yellow-orange roughly shaded region is the range of densities and temperatures you might expect. The details will depend on all sorts of details of the setup. If you have a combination of liquid and gaseous water after the cooler, then you will lie somewhere on the liquid/vapor phase boundary line.
 

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Khashishi said:
510C is above the critical temperature for water, so water will be similar to an ideal gas at that point. Liquid water is essentially incompressible. If the temperature drops to the boiling point, some steam will condense into water, bringing the pressure down, dropping the boiling point. So the boiling point will follow the temperature for a while, and you will have some combination of liquid and gas water. So look at a phase diagram for water, and take a look at w

I modified http://commons.wikimedia.org/w/index.php?title=User:Matthieumarechal&action=edit&redlink=1 's CC diagram off of wikipedia. The yellow-orange roughly shaded region is the range of densities and temperatures you might expect. The details will depend on all sorts of details of the setup. If you have a combination of liquid and gaseous water after the cooler, then you will lie somewhere on the liquid/vapor phase boundary line.

Hmm, I'm still a bit confused. I still am having trouble finding values for each segment of the system. Going off the assumption that “…steam inlet conditions of 510°C, 10 MPa, and a flow rate of 50,000 kg/hr” how can I effectively find the mass flow rate, temperature, and pressure of each segment? Also what is the best way to find the work of the pump [new in diagram 2] and the turbine as well as the heat transfer of the heat exchanger. I have attached a new hopefully more clear diagram.

11vr8sz.png
 
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Mass flow rate is equal everywhere if it's not bunching up. There's not enough information for pressure and temperature, but you can get a rough range of values based on the phase diagram.
 
Khashishi said:
Mass flow rate is equal everywhere if it's not bunching up. There's not enough information for pressure and temperature, but you can get a rough range of values based on the phase diagram.
Hmm, with only the values given in this diagram, what would you choose for the remaining segments in order to find W and Q?
 

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Read up on a Carnot engine. Your real engine won't be as efficient, but it does put some limits on what is possible.
 
Khashishi said:
Read up on a Carnot engine. Your real engine won't be as efficient, but it does put some limits on what is possible.
I'll do some reading and get back to you.
 

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