The Significance of C in Einstein's Famous Equation E=MC^2

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    E=mc^2
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Discussion Overview

The discussion centers on the significance of the speed of light (c) in Einstein's equation E=mc², exploring its implications for energy and mass. Participants examine the theoretical underpinnings, mathematical relationships, and conceptual interpretations of the equation, including dimensional analysis and relativistic physics.

Discussion Character

  • Exploratory
  • Technical explanation
  • Conceptual clarification
  • Debate/contested
  • Mathematical reasoning

Main Points Raised

  • Some participants question why energy is expressed as a multiple of c², suggesting that it could be related to other constants instead.
  • Others propose that the invariance of the speed of light across inertial reference frames is a fundamental property that influences energy-mass relationships.
  • A participant mentions that the c in mc² arises from the gamma function in relativity, linking it to the energy-momentum 4-vector.
  • Some express curiosity about the mathematical necessity of squaring the speed of light and its appearance in other relativity equations, such as the Lorentz factor.
  • There are discussions about the physical interpretation of squaring a velocity in relation to energy, with some asserting that it is consistent with classical kinetic energy formulations.
  • Participants reference external resources for further exploration of the topic.

Areas of Agreement / Disagreement

Participants express a range of views on the significance of c in E=mc², with no clear consensus on the reasons for its squared relationship to energy. Disagreements exist regarding the interpretation of squaring velocity and its implications for understanding energy.

Contextual Notes

Some participants highlight the importance of dimensional analysis and the mathematical framework of relativity, while others note that the discussion does not resolve the conceptual challenges associated with understanding the squaring of velocity.

Darwin
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Why "C" in E=MC^2

What special property of the speed of light imposes itself on the amount of energy in a mass? Why should that energy be an exact multiple of the speed of light squared? Why not a multiple of some other constant like the Bohr radius, the Boltsmann constant, or the free electron g factor, or just some other number, such as my shoe size?
 
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The special property of Light is that its relative velocity is invarient for inertial reference frames. IOW, no matter who measures the speed of light, or what their relative velocity to each other is, or their relative velocity to the source of the light, they will always get the same value for the speed of light relative to themselves.

With this and the other postulate of Relativity, that the laws of Physics are the same for all inertial reference frames, you can derive the time dilation and length contraction formulas. In turn, with these you can derive the formula for the kinetic energy of a moving object according to Relativity.
(as energy is measured in units of [itex]\frac{md^2}{t^2}[/itex] and time(t) and distance(d) are effected by relative velocity, it stands to reason that the kinetic energy of the object will likewise be effected.)
If you then set v in this formula to 0, (for an object at rest) you are left with
[tex]e=mc^2[/tex]
 
Darwin, i would suggest learning a little something about basic dimensional analysis (dimensionally, it has to be some velocity squared) and also Planck units. Wikipedia has articles in both.
 
Darwin said:
What special property of the speed of light imposes itself on the amount of energy in a mass? Why should that energy be an exact multiple of the speed of light squared? Why not a multiple of some other constant like the Bohr radius, the Boltsmann constant, or the free electron g factor, or just some other number, such as my shoe size?

To add to Janus' post...

Although we call "c" the "speed of light", it might be better to think of "c" as the "[invariant] maximum signal speed", which is a property of structure of space-time. It just so happens that "light", a phenomena of the electromagnetic field, propagates at this maximum signal speed.

With the issue framed in this way, those other parameters you mentioned [Bohr radius, Boltzmann constant, g-factor, your shoe size,...] are not distinguished in any way.

It might be interesting to note that Galilean/Newtonian physics has no analogous [finite, dimensionful] parameter like "c".
 
Darwin said:
What special property of the speed of light imposes itself on the amount of energy in a mass? Why should that energy be an exact multiple of the speed of light squared? Why not a multiple of some other constant like the Bohr radius, the Boltsmann constant, or the free electron g factor, or just some other number, such as my shoe size?

In addition to these sage comments, the c in mc^2 comes from the "gamma" function: (I hope the LaTeX works this time!)
[tex]\gamma = \frac{1}{\sqrt{1-v^2/c^2}}[/tex]
(It worked! Yay!)
Anyway, that's the definition of gamma. When we express the energy function we get an expansion in terms of c^2.

The other way to do it is to look at the 4-vectors. The energy-momentum 4-vector always takes the form: (E/c,px,py,pz) The c is required here to make sure that the "square" of this 4-vector takes the appropriate constant. Squaring the vector we get [tex]\frac{E^2}{c^2}-p^2=m^2c^2[/tex], which is the general form of E=mc^2.

-Dan
 
Darwin said:
What special property of the speed of light imposes itself on the amount of energy in a mass? Why should that energy be an exact multiple of the speed of light squared? Why not a multiple of some other constant like the Bohr radius, the Boltsmann constant, or the free electron g factor, or just some other number, such as my shoe size?
........
have a look please at
http://arxiv.org/abs/physics/0505025
comments appreciated
 
I've always wondered why its c squared. Apart from the fact that mathematically it works out that way, is there any understanding for why you would want to square a velocity to find energy? Or why it appears again in other relativity equations: sqrt(1 - v^2/c^2) ?
 
Sumo said:
I've always wondered why its c squared. Apart from the fact that mathematically it works out that way, is there any understanding for why you would want to square a velocity to find energy? Or why it appears again in other relativity equations: sqrt(1 - v^2/c^2) ?

The kinetic energy of a moving object is equal to (m*v^2)/2
m= mass
v= velocity

So, it is not *strange* to relate energy with the square of velocity.

Leandros
 
  • #10
Sumo said:
is there any understanding for why you would want to square a velocity to find energy? Or why it appears again in other relativity equations: sqrt(1 - v^2/c^2) ?

In both non-relativistic and relativistic mechanics, kinetic energy is derived via the work-energy theorem: the change in an object's kinetic energy equals the work done by an external force.

[tex]\Delta K = W = \int {Fdx} = \int {\frac {dp}{dt}} dx[/tex]

In the relativistic case you have to use relativistic momentum [itex]p = m \gamma v[/itex], which brings in the [itex]\gamma[/itex] factor that you mention above.

In turn, the relativistic momentum can be derived by analyzing a collision carefully, taking length contraction and time dilation into account. This is how [itex]\gamma[/itex] gets into the relativistic momentum.

Finally, to see how the [itex]\gamma[/itex] factor comes about in the first place, see (for example) the common derivation of the time-dilation equation using a light-beam clock:

http://www.phys.unsw.edu.au/einsteinlight/jw/module4_time_dilation.htm

I'm sure there are other ways of doing all this, but this is probably the most common chain of logic that you'll see in introductory "modern physics" textbooks.
 
Last edited:
  • #11
Ok, but what I mean is, for example, if we square a distance its pretty easy to understand what that means. But I can't understand what squaring a velocity means, or how it has anything to do with energy.
 
  • #12
Physically, it's the same as force times distance and again, getting the units/math to work out is the entire point here. The word "energy" doesn't have some mystical meaning, we use the word to describe a useful mathematical expression.

Also - how does squaring a distance make sense where squaring a velocity doesn't?
 

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