- #1
heusdens
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We are confronted with a weird fact of human history that the way we think about the world is (more or less) divided into (roughly) two categories (well there are more, but for the sake of argument let's reduce it to these two) of thought, namely theism and atheism.
This already confronts us with the fact that theism posits itself as a positive, supposedly it admits a positive fact about the world, and atheism is then defined as the negative of that, which then supposedly admits to a negative fact about the world.
That is not how I see things.
I wonder why this would be the case, since one can think of the roles of these reversed, in that in fact atheism admits to a positive fact about the world, the fact that there is a world, and can not and never be not a world, while the theist in fact brings that fact in serious doubt if not straight out brought as a negative that the existence of the world (in all time and all space) is not a sure fact, in that it places the world in a position that it lacks something, namely a self-sufficient cause of existence, and that only by an act of a creator of some sort, this then could be "fixed".
So, in fact the theist admits the negative fact that the world itself lacks reason for it's own existence, and must be given that by a creator.
The atheist however sees the world as a consistent fact in which the world nothing misses for it's own existence, but is self-sufficient. It already contains it's own reason of existence, which is given to us by the fact that it exists.
The atheist has the trust that a self-sufficient world without a need of some external cause to exists. The world can be trusted. Our mind my fool us.
The theist however has some fundamental doubt about the world, in such a way that the theist thinks the world needs some external cause for existing, which is then postulated in the form of a creator. The reason why the theist doubts the world so much, is that it doubts itself, because it is unable or unwilling to perceive of the natural relationships that exist, in which mind is only temporal and the world itself eternal. It is the thought of a seriously troubled mind, which sees itself in the wrong perspective towards the world, that it puts the normal causal relationship in the wrong order. It is a thought based on fear, rather then acceptance of the natural world order, it is a mind not in agreement withitself, and in serious doubt and despair.
Instead of the natural given relationship in which for every mind that exists it is the case that world already existed before that mind existed, it has the opinion that mind was already there before there in fact was a world.
This is however just something that the mind can think and deceive itself into (it can create that thought) but is not the truthfull relation as we know exists, and this thought does not change one bit in how the world really exists.
Our mind just produces thought, and although we have unlimited freedom of thought, the restriction is that thought does not produce anything outside itself, ie. it does not change anything in the world.
For a significant part our material existence and biological functions, needed for our existence, are regulated by the brain on it's own, without us bothering to be aware of (unless we are made aware of it). In the ultimate sense, the material organ of the brain is the ground for us having a mind and be able to think. The thinking itself establishes itself at the basis of all the different material relationships within the brain that enables it to operate that way, and we do not even know how it does that exactly. We do not even need to have the knowledge how that all operates, because it does not in any way limit us to use our mental and bodily functions.
The world itself is in no way dependent on our mind. Whatever thought we produce in our mind, the world is not in any way different because of it. The relationship is directly inverse, our mind is directly dependend on the world itself. Without a brain, we would not be able to think, our mind would not exist, etc.
The world does not have a choice of existence, it rather simply exists. The world does not deceive us, we can only in our mind deceive us self.
So rather as recognizing the theist vision as a 'positive fact', as one that positively admits to a belief in god, and under which terms the atheist would only establish a negative fact of reality, that there is no god, the fact is that theism establishes a false relationship between us and the world, in which the world supposedly would not have self-sufficient reason of existence, so is rather clinging on a negative fact about reality. If, however, the world would not have self-sufficient reason of existing, the world would not have bothered to exist in the first place, which we know with our mind, is not the case, for no other reason then that the world itself contains sufficient reason for it's existence. This reason is given to us in conscioussness in the form of the existence of matter of which the world and everything in it is made and is spread out in space and time. Matter has no reason or cause of existing outside of itself.
The atheist position is just establishing the positive and truthfull facts of existence and reality, that there positively is a world, which is independent of mind, and which forms the sufficient cause of our own (mindly and material) existence.
This already confronts us with the fact that theism posits itself as a positive, supposedly it admits a positive fact about the world, and atheism is then defined as the negative of that, which then supposedly admits to a negative fact about the world.
That is not how I see things.
I wonder why this would be the case, since one can think of the roles of these reversed, in that in fact atheism admits to a positive fact about the world, the fact that there is a world, and can not and never be not a world, while the theist in fact brings that fact in serious doubt if not straight out brought as a negative that the existence of the world (in all time and all space) is not a sure fact, in that it places the world in a position that it lacks something, namely a self-sufficient cause of existence, and that only by an act of a creator of some sort, this then could be "fixed".
So, in fact the theist admits the negative fact that the world itself lacks reason for it's own existence, and must be given that by a creator.
The atheist however sees the world as a consistent fact in which the world nothing misses for it's own existence, but is self-sufficient. It already contains it's own reason of existence, which is given to us by the fact that it exists.
The atheist has the trust that a self-sufficient world without a need of some external cause to exists. The world can be trusted. Our mind my fool us.
The theist however has some fundamental doubt about the world, in such a way that the theist thinks the world needs some external cause for existing, which is then postulated in the form of a creator. The reason why the theist doubts the world so much, is that it doubts itself, because it is unable or unwilling to perceive of the natural relationships that exist, in which mind is only temporal and the world itself eternal. It is the thought of a seriously troubled mind, which sees itself in the wrong perspective towards the world, that it puts the normal causal relationship in the wrong order. It is a thought based on fear, rather then acceptance of the natural world order, it is a mind not in agreement withitself, and in serious doubt and despair.
Instead of the natural given relationship in which for every mind that exists it is the case that world already existed before that mind existed, it has the opinion that mind was already there before there in fact was a world.
This is however just something that the mind can think and deceive itself into (it can create that thought) but is not the truthfull relation as we know exists, and this thought does not change one bit in how the world really exists.
Our mind just produces thought, and although we have unlimited freedom of thought, the restriction is that thought does not produce anything outside itself, ie. it does not change anything in the world.
For a significant part our material existence and biological functions, needed for our existence, are regulated by the brain on it's own, without us bothering to be aware of (unless we are made aware of it). In the ultimate sense, the material organ of the brain is the ground for us having a mind and be able to think. The thinking itself establishes itself at the basis of all the different material relationships within the brain that enables it to operate that way, and we do not even know how it does that exactly. We do not even need to have the knowledge how that all operates, because it does not in any way limit us to use our mental and bodily functions.
The world itself is in no way dependent on our mind. Whatever thought we produce in our mind, the world is not in any way different because of it. The relationship is directly inverse, our mind is directly dependend on the world itself. Without a brain, we would not be able to think, our mind would not exist, etc.
The world does not have a choice of existence, it rather simply exists. The world does not deceive us, we can only in our mind deceive us self.
So rather as recognizing the theist vision as a 'positive fact', as one that positively admits to a belief in god, and under which terms the atheist would only establish a negative fact of reality, that there is no god, the fact is that theism establishes a false relationship between us and the world, in which the world supposedly would not have self-sufficient reason of existence, so is rather clinging on a negative fact about reality. If, however, the world would not have self-sufficient reason of existing, the world would not have bothered to exist in the first place, which we know with our mind, is not the case, for no other reason then that the world itself contains sufficient reason for it's existence. This reason is given to us in conscioussness in the form of the existence of matter of which the world and everything in it is made and is spread out in space and time. Matter has no reason or cause of existing outside of itself.
The atheist position is just establishing the positive and truthfull facts of existence and reality, that there positively is a world, which is independent of mind, and which forms the sufficient cause of our own (mindly and material) existence.
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