Thermocouple Type-K: 3 Wires & Ceramic Shield?

  • Thread starter Thread starter Artyman
  • Start date Start date
  • Tags Tags
    thermocouple
Click For Summary
The discussion centers on a Type-K thermocouple that features an additional grounding wire connected to its joint, which is unusual compared to standard two-wire configurations. This extra wire is believed to facilitate grounding through a thermowell, potentially preventing static charge buildup that could affect measurement accuracy. Users express curiosity about the thermocouple's application in an electric tube furnace, which is intended for lab work with ceramic samples. Troubleshooting advice is provided, emphasizing the importance of proper thermocouple function and caution against amateur repairs in gas systems. The conversation concludes with a focus on ensuring the thermocouple and temperature controller are appropriate for the furnace's operation.
  • #31
Averagesupernova said:
My guess the third wire is to help with noise imunity while preventing the whole thermocouple from floating. I would think there would be better noise immunity when this third wire is grounded back at the amplifier/transmitter than just grounding it at the weld. I would think of it as a shielded twisted pair microphone cable.

A propensity for noise issues depends on controller instrumentation amp design as well as TC construction and wiring. I ran into this when replacing an ancient Barber-Coleman MACO V control system with a (then, only recently introduced) Allen-Bradley SLC500 PLC equipped with a half dozen 1747-NT4, 4 channel thermocouple input modules. Temperature measurements drifted by a degree or so, some more than others, and apparently at random, but closer investigation revealed it depended on how many zones were simultaneously calling for heat. Turned out the -NT4 module was more sensitive to common mode noise than the MACO V (several years later A-B introduced an -INT4 module with better isolation), and a quick fix was to swap out the original grounded thermocouple probes for ungrounded ones. Another option was to replace all the TC extension wire runs with shielded TC extension cable, ground the shield at the TC plug negative connection (in the process introducing an ongoing maintenance issue), and bond the negative TC extension wire at the module's analog common.

1747-NT4_Input.jpg
TC input wiring

It was a long walk to get here, but most other manufacturers also recommend bonding a grounded thermocouple's cable shield to the source (TC) rather than at the instrument side. The cable shield for an ungrounded TC is grounded at the input module.

Ungrounded thermocouples aren't a panacea, and don't necessarily help with noise. Many TC instrumentation amps connect the inverting input to ground through a high resistance. It they don't, any charge that builds up on the wires through op amp reverse bias leakage, static, etc. has nowhere to go, and affects measurements.

AD_TC_Figure 6_Circuit.jpg


Figure 6 was borrowed from an excellent Analog Devices technical article, "Two Ways to Measure Temperature Using Thermocouples Feature Simplicity, Accuracy, and Flexibility" regarding their TC amplifiers.

In the OP's situation I'd bet there is a screw within reach of the TC ground wire with witness marks indicating prior connection.
 
  • Like
Likes Artyman

Similar threads

  • · Replies 5 ·
Replies
5
Views
2K
  • · Replies 27 ·
Replies
27
Views
40K
  • · Replies 3 ·
Replies
3
Views
3K
  • · Replies 3 ·
Replies
3
Views
1K
  • · Replies 9 ·
Replies
9
Views
5K
  • · Replies 15 ·
Replies
15
Views
3K
Replies
1
Views
2K
  • · Replies 4 ·
Replies
4
Views
2K
  • · Replies 10 ·
Replies
10
Views
2K
  • · Replies 4 ·
Replies
4
Views
5K