Thermodynamics -- calculating fluid mass

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Discussion Overview

The discussion revolves around a thermodynamics problem involving the calculation of fluid mass during a series of processes, including compression and expansion, as described in a homework statement. Participants explore the application of specific volume and various thermodynamic laws to derive the mass of the fluid, as well as other related parameters.

Discussion Character

  • Homework-related
  • Technical explanation
  • Mathematical reasoning

Main Points Raised

  • One participant expresses difficulty in calculating the mass of the fluid, despite having an answer, and seeks assistance.
  • Another participant suggests using the specific volume to determine the mass, indicating that it is essential for the calculation.
  • A participant identifies a potential error in the specific volume value, correcting it from 0.05 to 0.5, which leads to a correct result.
  • There is a discussion about the processes linking the initial state to the unknown volume, with references to the laws governing the transformations (pvn = constant and pv2 = constant).
  • Participants discuss the relationships between pressures and volumes during the processes, indicating a method to derive the unknown volume using the corrected values.

Areas of Agreement / Disagreement

Participants generally agree on the need to use specific volume for calculations, but there is some uncertainty regarding the initial values and the correct application of the formulas. The discussion remains unresolved regarding the exact steps to derive the mass without the current volume.

Contextual Notes

Participants highlight the importance of accurate numerical values and the relationships between different states in the thermodynamic cycle. There are unresolved aspects regarding the application of specific equations and the implications of the processes described.

Who May Find This Useful

This discussion may be useful for students studying thermodynamics, particularly those working on problems involving fluid mass calculations and the application of thermodynamic laws in various processes.

BurningUrge
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This is quite possibly very basic, but I have a horrible habit of forgetting basics as I move up the ladder in difficulty during the semester. This is a question regarding Thermodynamics, taken from Chapter 1; Introduction and the First Law of Thermodynamics of the book Applied Thermodynamics for Engineering Technologist (5th Edition).

I am including the whole question just to avoid any misunderstandings.

Homework Statement


A fluid at 0.7 bar occupying 0.09m3 is compressed reversibly to a pressure of 3.5 bar according to law pvn = constant. The fluid is then heated reversibly at constant volume until the pressure is 4 bar; the spesific volume is then 0.05m3 / kg. A reversible expansion according to a law pv2 = constant restores the fluid to its initial state. Sketch the cycle to a p-v diagram and calculate:

i) The mass of fluid present (THIS is the one I cannot seem to figure out.. basics be damned)
ii) the value of n in the first process.
iii) the net work of the cycle.

Homework Equations


It is a fluid, not explicitly stated to be gas or liquid, so the basic pv = nRT doesn't necessarily apply here.

The Attempt at a Solution


I'm stumped, really. I have the answer (0.0753 kg) but I cannot figure out how to get to it.
 
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BurningUrge said:
Sketch the cycle to a p-v diagram and calculate:
Did you do that?

To get the mass, you will need to use the specific volume given.
 
BurningUrge said:
I have the answer (0.0753 kg) but I cannot figure out how to get to it.
I just calculated it myself, and I'm off by a factor of 10. Could you please check all the numerical values you have given in the problem?
 
Okay, so I rechecked the values, and the Spesific volume is meant to be 0.5, NOT 0.05. One slight tap too much on the 0 there.

Also, I did sketch the p-v diagram, yes. I'm pretty sure I got the understanding of how the process looks.

And when you say that I need to use Spesific volume, it strikes me how stupid I have actually been trying to figure this out. With that in mind, which formula would you suggest looking into for calculating the mass when I don't actually have the current volume? It's a pvn = constant, so I can't figure it out with the p1V1 = p2V2
 
BurningUrge said:
Okay, so I rechecked the values, and the Spesific volume is meant to be 0.5, NOT 0.05. One slight tap too much on the 0 there.
Good, then I get the correct result.

BurningUrge said:
Also, I did sketch the p-v diagram, yes. I'm pretty sure I got the understanding of how the process looks.
Then you should see that there are two processes that link the initial state to the unknown volume.
 
DrClaude said:
Then you should see that there are two processes that link the initial state to the unknown volume.

Yes there is. The 1 -> 2 and 3 ->4 both link the process from the initial volume to the unknown. Does it have anything to do with the pv2 = constant that is the exponent for the revesible process happening in 3 -> 4?

Or put in this way, I can figure out the volume using p1V12 = p3V32, where V3 = V2
 
BurningUrge said:
Or put in this way, I can figure out the volume using p1V12 = p3V32
Correct.
 
Then I have my answer and I am greatly appreciative of your help. Thank you very much!
 

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