Thermodynamics [Constant Vapor Pressure Problem]

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Discussion Overview

The discussion revolves around a thermodynamics problem involving the expansion of steam at constant pressure, specifically addressing the calculation of final temperature, heat transfer, and available heat for a sink temperature. The scope includes homework-related problem-solving and technical reasoning regarding vapor quality and flow processes.

Discussion Character

  • Homework-related
  • Technical explanation
  • Debate/contested

Main Points Raised

  • The original poster (OP) presents a problem involving steam expansion at constant pressure and seeks help with calculations for final temperature, heat transfer, and available heat.
  • Some participants question the classification of the process as nonflow given the specified mass flow rate of 0.9 kg/s.
  • One participant expresses confusion about the initial state of the steam and the implications of the 70% quality before expansion.
  • Another participant clarifies that the OP's steam already has a vapor quality of 70% and a pressure of 3 MPa, indicating that the specific volume of the steam changes during expansion.
  • There is a discussion about the correct interpretation of vapor quality and its relation to mass flow rates, with calculations presented for the mass flow of vapor.
  • One participant calculates specific volumes and temperatures using steam tables but questions the results, indicating potential discrepancies in understanding the problem.
  • Another participant expresses uncertainty about whether to treat the problem as a flow or non-flow process, indicating a lack of clarity in the problem statement.

Areas of Agreement / Disagreement

Participants do not reach a consensus on whether the process should be classified as flow or non-flow, and there are differing interpretations of the problem statement and the calculations involved. Some participants agree on certain calculations while others express confusion and uncertainty.

Contextual Notes

Participants highlight limitations in understanding the problem statement, particularly regarding the definitions of flow versus non-flow processes and the implications of vapor quality. There are unresolved questions about the initial conditions and the calculations derived from the steam tables.

Who May Find This Useful

This discussion may be useful for students and practitioners in thermodynamics, particularly those dealing with steam properties, vapor quality, and process classifications in engineering contexts.

MrMechanic
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Homework Statement


There are expanded 0.90kg/s of steam at constant pressure from 3MPa and 70% quality to a final state. If the process is nonflow for which W = 121.3kJ/s, find (a) The final temperature, (b) Q, (c) the available part of Q for a sink temperature of to = 27 Celsius

  • Answers : a) 282 celsius, b) 966 kJ/s, c) 414 kJ/s

Homework Equations


Wnf = P(V2-V1)
Q = H2 - H1
but there's mass, so
Wnf = mP(V2-V1)
Q = m(H2 - H1)

The Attempt at a Solution


I used the steam table for Sat. Pressure. And I got V1 = Vf1 + x(Vfg1) = 47.04095 x 10^-3 m^3/kg
And so,
Wnf = mP(V2-V1)
121.3 = (0.90)(3MPa)(V2 - 47.04095)
So i Got 91.96687593 x10^-3 m^3/kg
Checking it in table 3 from the steam table the temperature is way off the mark of the desired answer.

Is there another way around it? Please help me. The answers are written above ... below the problem...
 
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How can this be a nonflow process if the flow rate is 0.9 kg/s?

Chet
 
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From my understanding the liquid vapor was at 70% quality before it turns into a steam having 0.9kg/s.
Either way the problem is really hard to understand. If i can figure out what's initially there before turning into steam.
 
MrMechanic said:
From my understanding the liquid vapor was at 70% quality before it turns into a steam having 0.9kg/s.
Either way the problem is really hard to understand. If i can figure out what's initially there before turning into steam.

No, that's not how vapor quality works, and it is not what is described by the problem statement.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Vapor_quality

According to the OP, you already have steam with a vapor quality of 70% and a pressure of 3 MPa entering the machine, where it then expands while doing work (or more accurately having a power output) of 121.3 kJ/s. This means that the specific volume of the steam entering is low, and the specific volume of the steam coming out is greater, since it has expanded while doing the work.
 
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I see. Thanks for clearing that. From the link that you gave. I found out that I can use X = Mass of vapor / Mass total. I have 0.70 as x but 0.90kg/s is mass of vapor or mass total?
 
It's total mass flow. And, even though the problem statement says that it's a nonflow process, it definitely appears to be a flow process.

Chet
 
It's the total mass flow rate.
 
0.7 = Mass of the Vapor / 0.90
Mass flow rate of the vapor = 0.63 kg/s
I got V1 = 0.04704095 m^3/kg
and V2 = 0.09196687593 m^3/kg
By using interpolation from the steam table of 3MPa i get 353 degrees Celsius. Is there something wrong?
And V1 is from the saturated temp of 3MPa which is 233.90 celsius at the steam table.
 
I'm sorry. I still don't understand the problem statement, and whether the problem should be treated as flow or non-flow. So, I'm going to drop out of the discussion.

It does look like you determined the initial temperature correctly.

Chet
 

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