Thermodynamics - thermal energy?

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Discussion Overview

The discussion revolves around the concept of thermal energy in thermodynamics, particularly its relationship to translational kinetic energy and how to calculate the total thermal energy of a system given its volume and pressure. The scope includes theoretical aspects of thermodynamics and mathematical reasoning related to ideal gases.

Discussion Character

  • Technical explanation
  • Mathematical reasoning
  • Debate/contested

Main Points Raised

  • One participant suggests that thermal energy is derived from translational kinetic energy, referencing the equation E(kin)=1.5kT.
  • Another participant clarifies that the equation represents average kinetic energy per molecule and proposes multiplying by Avogadro's number or using the gas constant R to find total energy per mole, leading to Etotal=1.5nRT.
  • A different participant points out that thermal energy encompasses various forms of energy, including translational, rotational, and vibrational kinetic energies, and references the Equipartition theorem.
  • One participant expresses caution about the term "thermal energy," suggesting it can be ambiguous and recommending the use of "heat" or "internal energy" for clarity.
  • For a monatomic ideal gas, another participant states that the internal energy can be expressed as U = nCvT = 3nRT/2, noting that more complex molecules involve additional forms of energy.

Areas of Agreement / Disagreement

Participants express differing views on the definition and scope of thermal energy, with some emphasizing its translational component while others highlight its broader context. No consensus is reached regarding the terminology and calculation methods.

Contextual Notes

There are limitations in the discussion regarding the assumptions made about the system being an ideal gas and the definitions of thermal energy, heat, and internal energy, which may vary among participants.

iScience
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The thermal energy comes from the translational kinetic energy right? The relationship between the two being E(kin)=1.5kT

how would i go about finding the total thermal energy of a system of a given volume and pressure?
 
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Your equation is for the average kinetic energy per molecule. Multiply by avagadro's number to get the kinetic energy (internal energy) per mole, or, equivalently, replace the k in your equation by the gas constant R. If you have n moles, then Etotal=1.5nRT. But, from the ideal gas law, nRT = PV. So, what is Etotal?
 
You have a long way to go in your understanding. Thermal energy includes all kinds of energy, including translational, rotational, vibrational kinetic energies and other forms of energy.
Check out Equipartition theorem - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
Your second sentence is mostly ok for the case of a monoatomic ideal gas. That's the kinetic energy of each atom.

In regards to your question, it depends on what your system is. If it is an ideal gas, then you can use the ideal gas law ##PV = nkT##. The thermal energy is ##dnkT##, where d is the number of degrees of freedom, 3 for a monoatomic gas.
 
iScience said:
The thermal energy comes from the translational kinetic energy right? The relationship between the two being E(kin)=1.5kT

how would i go about finding the total thermal energy of a system of a given volume and pressure?
I would recommend against using the term "thermal energy". It is used inconsistently and may refer to either heat or internal energy so it can be confusing. You should use "heat" or "heat flow" to refer to the transfer of energy between two states by means other than mechanical work. Or you may use "internal energy" to describe the energy content of a system in a particular state.

Temperature is a measure of the average translational kinetic energy of a collection of molecules in thermal equilibrium. For a monatomic ideal gas, the internal energy of the gas, U = nCvT = 3nRT/2. For more complicated molecules, which have active vibrational and/or rotational modes, and intermolecular forces, the internal energy consists of translational, rotational, vibrational as well as potential energy.

AM
 

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