Three dimensional tracefree tensor?

  • Context: Undergrad 
  • Thread starter Thread starter Pencilvester
  • Start date Start date
  • Tags Tags
    Tensor
Click For Summary

Discussion Overview

The discussion revolves around the generalization of shear in three-dimensional tracefree tensors, particularly in the context of geodesic congruences as presented in "A Relativist’s Toolkit" by Poisson. Participants explore the relationship between tensor components and the conditions for tracefree properties in three dimensions.

Discussion Character

  • Technical explanation
  • Conceptual clarification
  • Debate/contested

Main Points Raised

  • One participant defines tensor B in the context of geodesic congruences and questions how the concept of shear generalizes from two to three dimensions.
  • Another participant suggests that one of the diagonal components of the tensor could equal zero to maintain tracefree properties.
  • A different participant asserts that the sum of the diagonal elements must be zero, emphasizing that this is the only requirement for tracefree tensors in three dimensions.
  • A later reply reflects on the implications of the relationship between diagonal components, noting that the specific relationship is less relevant than the requirement that they sum to zero.
  • One participant provides an example involving a cube with sides (1+a), (1+b), (1+c) to illustrate the concept of volume change and trace, linking it to the condition of zero expansion scalar when a+b+c=0.

Areas of Agreement / Disagreement

Participants express differing views on the implications of diagonal components in three dimensions, with some emphasizing the necessity of their sum being zero while others explore specific configurations. The discussion remains unresolved regarding the exact nature of the relationship between these components.

Contextual Notes

Participants do not fully explore the mathematical implications of their claims, and there are assumptions about the definitions of shear and tracefree conditions that are not explicitly stated.

Pencilvester
Messages
214
Reaction score
52
TL;DR
I’m not sure how that works.
Hi PF, I’m working through “A Relativist’s Toolkit” by Poisson, and I’m in the section on geodesic congruances, subsection: kinematics of a deformable medium. I got through the section on the 2-dimensional example that introduced expansion, shear, and rotation just fine, but I’m having trouble with the generalization to three dimensions, specifically with shear.

I’ll have to start by defining tensor B as he does:$$\frac{d\xi^a}{dt}=B^a_b (t)\xi^b +O(\xi^2)$$where ##\xi## is the displacement vector. In the 2-dimensional example, shear was introduced as the case where B is symmetric and tracefree, so the top left and bottom right components were equal but with opposite signs. That’s fine. But how does that generalize to three dimensions? The only way I can think to make it tracefree is by making the diagonal components equal without varying signs, but scaling at least one of them by some coefficient in order to make them cancel out. Is that right?
 
Physics news on Phys.org
Or I guess one component could equal 0?
 
The sum of the diagonal elements is zero. There is nothing else to it.
 
  • Like
Likes   Reactions: vanhees71 and Pencilvester
Ha. So the relationship between the diagonal components is irrelevant if one even exists at all (other than they must all add to zero). I think the fact that in two dimensions one component equals the other (with opposite sign of course) threw me. I didn’t even think about the fact that that’s the only possibility when you’re only adding two things together. Well thanks!
 
Suppose you have a cube with sides (1+a), (1+b), (1+c). a,b, and c can be regarded as displacements of the faces. Then the volume of the cube is $$(1+a)(1+b)(1+c) \approx 1+a+b+c$$ to the first order.

So when a+b+c=0, the trace is zero, and the volume of the element doesn't change, which is consistent with the idea that the expansion scalar is zero.
 
  • Like
Likes   Reactions: vanhees71

Similar threads

  • · Replies 1 ·
Replies
1
Views
1K
  • · Replies 7 ·
Replies
7
Views
1K
  • · Replies 1 ·
Replies
1
Views
1K
  • · Replies 1 ·
Replies
1
Views
1K
  • · Replies 12 ·
Replies
12
Views
3K
  • · Replies 26 ·
Replies
26
Views
4K
  • · Replies 10 ·
Replies
10
Views
3K
  • · Replies 7 ·
Replies
7
Views
2K
  • · Replies 4 ·
Replies
4
Views
2K
  • · Replies 2 ·
Replies
2
Views
2K