Three indefinite integrals involving e^x

Click For Summary

Discussion Overview

The discussion revolves around three indefinite integrals involving the exponential function \( e^x \). Participants explore various methods for solving these integrals, including integration by parts and substitution techniques. The conversation includes both technical reasoning and attempts to clarify the problems presented.

Discussion Character

  • Technical explanation
  • Mathematical reasoning
  • Debate/contested

Main Points Raised

  • Some participants suspect a typo in the first problem, suggesting it involves a hypergeometric anti-derivative.
  • One participant proposes multiplying the integrand of the second integral by \( 1 = \frac{e^x}{e^x} \) to simplify the expression.
  • Another participant notes that differentiation of the denominator leads to a specific form, which they believe is useful for integration.
  • There is a suggestion to use integration by parts for the second integral, with a later participant questioning the necessity of this method.
  • One participant expresses doubt about the need for integration by parts after attempting a substitution that simplifies the integral significantly.
  • For the third integral, a participant suggests dividing the numerator and denominator by \( x \) to facilitate a potential \( u \)-substitution.

Areas of Agreement / Disagreement

Participants express differing views on the appropriate methods for solving the integrals, particularly regarding the use of integration by parts. There is no consensus on the best approach, and multiple competing methods are discussed.

Contextual Notes

Some participants mention potential typos and the need for clarity in the problems presented, indicating that assumptions about the integrals may not be fully resolved. The discussion reflects varying levels of confidence in the proposed methods.

rainyrainy906
Messages
2
Reaction score
0

Attachments

  • Capture.JPG
    Capture.JPG
    19.8 KB · Views: 140
Physics news on Phys.org
I have moved this thread as it involved integral calculus, and I have given it a descriptive title so that people looking at the thread listing can see at a glance the nature of the questions being asked. For future reference we also ask that no more than two questions be posted in a thread so that it does not potentially become convoluted and hard to follow.

In order for us to be able to help you, we need to see what you have tried so we know where you are stuck. Can you post your work so far?
 
MarkFL said:
I have moved this thread as it involved integral calculus, and I have given it a descriptive title so that people looking at the thread listing can see at a glance the nature of the questions being asked. For future reference we also ask that no more than two questions be posted in a thread so that it does not potentially become convoluted and hard to follow.

In order for us to be able to help you, we need to see what you have tried so we know where you are stuck. Can you post your work so far?

Thank you a lot :)
Next time I'll pay more attention
 
I suspect there is a typo in the first problem, as it involves a hypergeometric anti-derivative, so let's look at the second one:

$$I=\int\frac{\left(x^2+x\right)e^x}{x+e^{-x}}\,dx$$

My first thought here is to multiply the integrand by $$1=\frac{e^x}{e^x}$$ to get:

$$I=\int\frac{\left(x^2+x\right)e^{2x}}{xe^x+1}\,dx$$

Now, if we look at the denominator, and see that by differentiation, we obtain:

$$\frac{d}{dx}\left(xe^x+1\right)=xe^x+e^x=e^x(x+1)$$

And then observe that we may write our integral as:

$$I=\int\frac{e^x\left(x+1\right)xe^{x}}{xe^x+1}\,dx$$

Now, I think we are ready to try integration by parts...can you see what substitutions you should try?
 
MarkFL said:
I suspect there is a typo in the first problem, as it involves a hypergeometric anti-derivative, so let's look at the second one:

$$I=\int\frac{\left(x^2+x\right)e^x}{x+e^{-x}}\,dx$$

My first thought here is to multiply the integrand by $$1=\frac{e^x}{e^x}$$ to get:

$$I=\int\frac{\left(x^2+x\right)e^{2x}}{xe^x+1}\,dx$$

Now, if we look at the denominator, and see that by differentiation, we obtain:

$$\frac{d}{dx}\left(xe^x+1\right)=xe^x+e^x=e^x(x+1)$$

And then observe that we may write our integral as:

$$I=\int\frac{e^x\left(x+1\right)xe^{x}}{xe^x+1}\,dx$$

Now, I think we are ready to try integration by parts...can you see what substitutions you should try?

Integration by parts? Really?

$\displaystyle \begin{align*} \int{ \frac{\mathrm{e}^x\,\left( x + 1 \right) \, x\,\mathrm{e}^x}{x\,\mathrm{e}^x + 1} \,\mathrm{d}x} \end{align*}$

Let $\displaystyle \begin{align*} u = x\,\mathrm{e}^x + 1 \implies \mathrm{d}u = \mathrm{e}^x \, \left( x + 1 \right) \,\mathrm{d}x \end{align*}$ and the integral becomes

$\displaystyle \begin{align*} \int{ \frac{u - 1}{u}\,\mathrm{d}u } &= \int{ 1 - \frac{1}{u}\,\mathrm{d}u} \end{align*}$

I don't see why we would need it :P
 
Yes, I am guilty of thinking IBP was what we would need before I even started, and so I "painted the bullseye" around where my arrow landed...hehehe.
 
For the third one, I would divide the numerator and denominator of the integrand by $x$ to obtain:

$$I=\int\frac{e^x+\frac{1}{x}}{e^x+\ln(x)}\,dx$$

Now, do you see an appropriate $u$-substitution?
 

Similar threads

  • · Replies 11 ·
Replies
11
Views
2K
  • · Replies 6 ·
Replies
6
Views
2K
  • · Replies 4 ·
Replies
4
Views
2K
  • · Replies 4 ·
Replies
4
Views
3K
  • · Replies 7 ·
Replies
7
Views
2K
  • · Replies 9 ·
Replies
9
Views
3K
  • · Replies 2 ·
Replies
2
Views
2K
  • · Replies 11 ·
Replies
11
Views
35K
  • · Replies 2 ·
Replies
2
Views
2K
  • · Replies 22 ·
Replies
22
Views
4K