To continue with college or not?

[annoyinggirl]

Of course I understand that ultimately, I am the only person responsible for answering that question, and I am the only person who can answer that question. But I would like some advice and guidance.

I am currently a sophomore who is lost in what she wants to do. I am very very very passionate and interested in Psychology (especially when it involves biology), but I don't like the options that are opened to that degree. A B.S degree is Psychology is often regarded as an "useless" degree. And I agree. It is one of the most popular degrees and most people who hold that degree are unemployed or have jobs that don't require those degrees (fast food, etc). I am also interested in Economics and am considering majoring in Psychology (with emphasis in Biology) and minor in Economics.

Even if I do manage to get a job with that degree, I won't like it. I'm not interested in being a therapist or social worker. The only thing I think I wouldn't really mind doing is maybe research in the psychology field. I am confounded by how I could like a subject so much but hate the jobs that involve knowledge from that subject. Is that common?

I was an Engineering major during freshman year but I kept being afraid that I was going to fail. This anxiety caused me to procrastinate a lot, to the point where I've failed most of my classes. I've never been very good in math. In high school, I suffered from an eating disorder that disabled me from learning math well. So my foundation in math is very shaky. Plus, i don't think I'm bright enough to be an Engineer. I am very interested in technology, fascinated everytime an invention betters my and other peoples' lives. But i understand that aptitude and interest are two different things. Also, I don't deal well with stress. It seems to me, through a lot of research about the profession, that Engineering is an on-call job, and one where you have tremendous responsibility in. When I am stressed, I wash my hands a lot. I don't know why. I think I have OCD, but I don't understand why being stressed exacerbates it. Stress also played a part in my eating disorders in the past. But I digress. The point I'm trying to make is that I am not someone who can deal with stress well.

My grades are so bad that I got kicked out of university, and am now attending a CC. I have to complete the lower division courses before I can go back to university ( i have signed a contract with them).

I feel that without majoring in Engineering and without a GPA high enough to get into Pharmacy,medical, or grad school, my degree is really worthless. I'm wasting time and money to get a degree that will give me no return. I am already 10k in debt from freshmen year.

Given my already ruined GPA (around 1.3) and my inability to be an Engineer, should I still continue with college? Should I pull out before my debt begins stacking even higher?

As for money, I don't need to make too much. I don't plan on having kids or marrying, so I will only have myself and maybe my aging parents to feed. I'd like to take them on a vacation or two, but other than that, I'm content with living in a small studio apartment that has plumbing, a warm bed, internet access, and food. I think 30k-40k would allow me to have a very comfortable living. Of course I'd like to make more (who wouldn't?) but I would be able to sustain and be content with that amount of money.

Thanks very much. All opinions are welcome and appreciated.

 

[seaofghosts]

I think you should keep going. Even if you only finish with an associate's from the community college. Have you tried programming? That might fit into your fascination with technology, and is a very active career -- you're constantly seeing your code work and evolve into bigger things, especially with a team.

I'm typically an all or nothing kind of person, which is more or less why I'm in school right now. I'm first year physics and am terrified of failing, too. I've learned to channel that into stubbornness. If I'm afraid of failing a test, I do more and more math problems until it makes me sick. And usually, it stops making me sick when I see I'm actually doing it right, so by the time I get to the test, I've aced it. So I think it might help to see yourself succeed, and it might only take one semester of hard work to prove to yourself you can do it, depending on how deep you've dug yourself into the failure hole. (And TBH, I still cry over low grades on quizzes, but it's better than it used to be!) Just remind yourself that math and overall quantitative thinking is a skill rather than a talent.

Anyway, maybe you can go for computer science. I was able to get a job in IT as a system admin because I was familiar with Unix and had taught myself basic programming. Even with a low GPA, you can get a job with just an associates or bachelors (you don't have to put it on your resume, and I don't hear of people asking about it often).

 

[MarneMath]

I was almost in the same boat as you. My freshman year I received a full ride to a certain university. The jump from high school to university was something I was not prepared for. I failed all my first exams. I considered that a reality checked, so I spent more time studying and failed my second round of exams again. By the end of my first semester, I think I passed 1 class, and I'm pretty sure it was my rowing class.

I lost my scholarship and didn't have money to attend any other school, so being hopeless, loss and basically a failure I sat around all winter watching tv. Long story short, a commericial motivated me to join the Army. Probably the best decision I ever made.

At the time, I looked at it like this. "I can't go to school, I need a job. The military pays and if I like it I can still in if I don't I'll have the GI Bill and can go back to school."

I eventually got out of the miltary and returned to school. I found the time spent being forced to mature taught me to handle stress better, focus more, and give me better direction in life. Interacting with so many poeple from different age groups from different backgrounds from all over the country, give me a lot of insight that has only helped me.

So that's my 2cent.

 

[annoyinggirl]

Seaofghosts(cute name), good idea. I'll look into computer science more. How old were you when you got the job as a system admin? And also, does computer science change? I know that in engineering you have to keep educating yourself after getting your degree to keep up with technology and discoveries in science. Does programming evolve, and do programmers have to constantly keep learning new stuff after graduation? And can you explain more about the relationship between programming/computer science and technology? Thanks a bunch!

Marnemath, that's great to hear! After failing, I've also considered joining the army. Actually, i was suicidal so I had the guts to do that at the time, too. But as a five feet tall female, i doubt I would be able to get the position(s) you had and have the rewarding experiences you have had. :( But thank you very much for your advice.

 

[seaofghosts]

Thanks :) It's from Skyrim, I'm an RPG nerd. :p

I was 24 when I got that job, still working my way through a worthless history AA. I had been little beyond a bank teller previously. (I've been in school FOREVER.)

Programming evolves a bit, usually in terms of what languages become more popular in the field (like right now apparently Lua is picking up in popularity, which I hadn't even heard of until recently). But once you've learned one language, the concepts are very similar in all the other languages, so you can easily learn others. I would say it's a constant learning process, though, even if you stick with the same language(s).

You'd need a bit of CS to be a REALLY good programmer -- you need to know what's going on in the computer when you code something, like how data types are stored, etc. My job required a lot of Unix scripting (like pulling specific lines/columns out of files and creating reports), so I had to know how to work my way around an HPUX system. Overall it really depends on who you work for -- I was with a credit union, but you could program for just about anybody. Games, cell phone companies, advertisement companies, grocery stores... all using different technology.

 

[annoyinggirl]

Wow. That's really good info, seaofghosts.

What do you think about a minor in Computer Science? Is its usefulness in getting a job comparable to that of a major in computer science? Also, how does getting a minor compare to getting an AA in computer science?

Now you got me considering majoring Psychology, minor in either or both Economics and Computer Science. ;)

If i could turn back the handles of time, I would have tried harder in math back in high school and major in computer science. But now that I'm already in a hole and have wasted a lot of time, pursuing a major in computer science would require the time and brains (lots of math courses) that I don't have. A minor in CS would require much fewer math courses.

And also, do you need to apply a lot of maths in the programming/CS courses, or programming in general?

Again, thanks a lot for your help. Sorry for bombarding you with questions.

 

[member 392791]

annoyinggirl, I noticed that you've posted several threads over the past months (even admittedly recognized your name on other websites as well, not being a stalker) about this stuff. Maybe you should take some time off school to think about this stuff before you dive into more debt.

One spring semester and a summer to go work isn't the end of the world, if you need even more time take it. There are plenty of people in CC that go back when they're 25+ years old.

 

[Vanadium 50]

Let's start with the basics. Why are you in college? What do you hope to get out of it?

 

[annoyinggirl]

I'm in college for the same reasons that most people are: for the opportunity to land a job that I would hate as least at possible or maybe even love.

I'm also looking to learn stuff, of course. That's why I'm considering to major in Psychology even though I know that it will probably not benefit me in the job market.

Oh, and asian parents.

 

[Vanadium 50]

If you are in college to learn a trade, psychology is probably not the right choice, then. Or, put another way, if you do choose to major in psychology, it will not advance your primary goal.

 

[annoyinggirl]

Good point vanadium 50. And thanks for the heads up. What are majors that are good for the goal of learning a trade? How about Economics?

 

[chill_factor]

economics is fine. but keep in mind that currently the job prospects are just not that good for any major except maybe CS.

i was in your situation before, similar schools even. long story short, i got kicked out of my research lab, put on academic probation, and switched majors... junior year.

my pal has it WORSE than you. you're in CC for only a few semesters... one guy i know spent 3 years at a CC, failed physics multiple times, finally made it into a state school and got kicked out again after a few quarters, back to CC...

my advice:

1.) your parents. if you are going to school because of them, they won't pull the plug on your money!

2.) get good study habits and sleep habits. this is important, during my entire undergrad i never had enough sleep; it was either partying, gaming or studying because i went to a party and the test is tomorrow/hw is due tomorrow.

 

[seaofghosts]

Yeah, I would advise against a psychology degree. The market is so flooded with psychology degrees it's ridiculous, and is always on those "worst degrees to get in college" lists on Yahoo (though you have to take those with a grain of salt).

That said, the best degrees for learning a trade are whatever you see yourself doing with your life. Look through every single CC degree possibility and weed things out based on your interests and skills. What classes look the most fun?

 

[uperkurk]

annoyingirl you seem extremely confused about where you're heading, I'm studying computer science at uni and I could tell you how amazing I think it is but when you come to learn it, you may hate it. To be honest if you've never thought about computing in general before then there's a good chance you won't like it just because you don't have a natural interest in it.

Why not just do you physcology degree then go onto research and work as a lecturer at a university?

 

[Pythagorean]

Maybe it's the cognitive sciences you are interested in. Not clinical psychology, but more theoretical psychology. Given this and your interest in biology, maybe neuroscience and psychology can work together for you.

 

[homeomorphic]

I am confounded by how I could like a subject so much but hate the jobs that involve knowledge from that subject. Is that common?

I don't know if it's common or not, but I think turning something into a job is a pretty effective way to take all the fun out of it. People telling you what to do, how to do it, assigning tasks that you have no interest in. I wanted to be a mathematician and I am finishing up a PhD in it, but I realized that having it as a job takes all the fun out of it, and I am therefore, enthusiastically quitting as soon as I have this nightmare of a PhD taken care of. I am hoping to find something interesting to do, but it may end up being my strategy to accept that work sucks, and just settle for minimizing the suckage and the stress, so I can do cool things in my spare time, including math and physics. But I don't know.

 

[Mdhiggenz]

Honestly just my opinion, it seems to me like you set yourself up for failure. If you keep believing that you can't do something then no amount of studying will help you.

I think you should continue with engineering finish it, and I guarantee you will feel so proud of yourself when you are finished that you could concur the world.

 

[annoyinggirl]

Honestly just my opinion, it seems to me like you set yourself up for failure. If you keep believing that you can't do something then no amount of studying will help you.

I think you should continue with engineering finish it, and I guarantee you will feel so proud of yourself when you are finished that you could concur the world.

You are so right. I wish I could believe in myself more. In fact, I act and talk quite cocky and even tell myself that I can do it. But deep down, I don't believe in myself and i really don't know how to get that confidence I need to succeed.

 

[annoyinggirl]

annoyingirl you seem extremely confused about where you're heading, I'm studying computer science at uni and I could tell you how amazing I think it is but when you come to learn it, you may hate it. To be honest if you've never thought about computing in general before then there's a good chance you won't like it just because you don't have a natural interest in it.

Why not just do you physcology degree then go onto research and work as a lecturer at a university?

Lecturing and research would be my dream. But lecturing is a job reserved for the best of the best. I've heard that for every ten people holding a phD, there is one prof position available. By the way, if I were to aim for this route, would majoring with a B.S in Psych benefit me significantly more than a B.A in Psych?

Thanks for your help

 

[annoyinggirl]

Maybe it's the cognitive sciences you are interested in. Not clinical psychology, but more theoretical psychology. Given this and your interest in biology, maybe neuroscience and psychology can work together for you.

ahh yes. The things you have described really appeal to me. Thanks for helping me describe that area of the field. I can't seem to do it myself since the field of psychology has so many branches.

 

[Mdhiggenz]

Role models are everything, I was a pretty bad student in all throughout middle school and high school constantly going to summer school " always for math". I was lucky to have a sister who I was able to mimic, I got to see her succeed in college and medical school, and when I started college my mind set was if she could do it I could do it since we are related. Makes no sense but worked for me.

 

[annoyinggirl]

What do you guys (and gals) think about Psychology B.S vs. Psychology B.A? How much more would a B.S help me in the job market? On grad school applications? In research? And maybe even increase my chances to lecture (though I doubt that is a viable option for me at this point due to my GPA).

I am now thinking about double majoring in Psychology and Economics. Economics is a pretty small major; it has relatively few classes. However, I can't decide if I want to major in Psychology with a B.S or a B.A. I understand that both are pretty useless in the job market. But which one is more so? If i get a B.A, I can return to the university by the end of this year because I wouldn't have to take Physics, General Chemistry, Organic chemistry, and Biology, which I would have to take if I were to get a B.S.

I really like science. I think science has made this world a much much much better place. In many cases, science has made life worth living. But I don't know if I should take so many rigorous classes (high chance of failing and lowering GPA) if it wouldn't benefit me in the job market in any way and would take a lot of time ( I have a limited time for receiving financial aid).

I really hate doing Chemistry lab. I'm okay with the paper work. But i tend to be clumsy and distracted in the lab. Plus, the requirement to work with a lab partner just makes things harder for me. I get distracted. Or like in this semester, my lab partner wanted to do things one way which I felt were not correct (she wanted to turn down the flame when the instructions asked for a moderate flame. I didn't want to argue so I just let her do what she wanted. Her decision to turn down the flame significantly affected the results, and this means that my lab has mistakes that wouldn't have happened otherwise. I guess it's also my fault that i don't know how to communicate, compromise, and work with others. I would really like to, but I'm just the really socially awkward type. ( Another reason I wouldn't make it as an Engineer... right?) i find some of the experiments fun sometimes, but with my grade on the line and everything i do having the potential to ruin my grade, i just feel so stressed. In lab, I feel especially stressed for some reason. All the chemicals, potential of danger, potential of doing something wrong or my lab partner doing something wrong. Chem lab just stresses me out a lot. And then when it comes time to write the lab report, i get scared to make a mistake too. The most annoying thing about chemistry, IMO, is significant digits. And I've heard organic chemistry is the real pain in the butt .My friend had straight A's in gen chem (something i can only dream of) and she is struggling in OChem.

I do think Physics is sooooo interesting, though. Biology too when the professor isn't a prick, although I find physics more intriguing. Chemistry interests me too, but lab is something I don't like.

But i really like to be part of the Science community, and if Psychology wasn't considered a science, I wouldn't pursue it at all.

 

[annoyinggirl]

Role models are everything, I was a pretty bad student in all throughout middle school and high school constantly going to summer school " always for math". I was lucky to have a sister who I was able to mimic, I got to see her succeed in college and medical school, and when I started college my mind set was if she could do it I could do it since we are related. Makes no sense but worked for me.

That makes perfect sense. My sister gets pretty good grades, and it makes me think that I have potential, since we share half our genes. But then I also doubt myself because sometimes I think maybe she got all the smart genes. She did get other favorable genes that I didn't get.

 

[tahayassen]

1.3 GPA, eh? Afraid of failing in engineering?

Go ahead and the spend the best $10-$20 of your life: the secret book

That makes perfect sense. My sister gets pretty good grades, and it makes me think that I have potential, since we share half our genes. But then I also doubt myself because sometimes I think maybe she got all the smart genes. She did get other favorable genes that I didn't get.

NO. NO. JUST STOP IT.

NO SUCH THING AS SMART GENES. LEARNING IS ALL ABOUT TECHNIQUE!

Sorry for caps. I'm just cringing so hard.

 

[symbolipoint]

annoyinggirl,
Are you sure that Psychology is the right direction for you? Maybe you have not examined the range of possible sciences enough to decide what you like or what you would be well suited doing.

Assuming that you had studied a variety of sciences (AND Mathematics), can you tell yourself these:

• Do you want a career in behavioral sciences?
• Do you want a career in any physical science? (Apparantly not really the way you describe).
• Do you think you want a career in technology design or development?
• Do you want a career in health or medical sciences?

Have you considered something interdisciplinary, like maybe educational degree in any language or in Linguistics? If you have not yet thought of these, then you really should give some effort to thinking about them and try at least one or two foreign languages (which are also partly Humanities courses as well as language courses at the fundamental/elementary level).

 

[Pythagorean]

Human behaviorial biology is an awesome subject. See Robert Sapolsky's Stanford open course lectures.

 

[MarneMath]

If you want to do pyschology but have a background you can fall back on, considering adding statistics to your minor or major. Yes, it's a lot more math, but lucky, the entry level positions for people who do stats isn't really that difficult. From my experience, it's a lot of data management. People with Masters and PhD handle the more difficult aspects, so I think it'll be worth wild.

 

[annoyinggirl]

1.3 GPA, eh? Afraid of failing in engineering?

Go ahead and the spend the best $10-$20 of your life: the secret book
NO. NO. JUST STOP IT.

NO SUCH THING AS SMART GENES. LEARNING IS ALL ABOUT TECHNIQUE!

Sorry for caps. I'm just cringing so hard.

"Sorry for caps. I'm just cringing so hard" that made me lol :)

Umm I actually own that book. After the first quarter of my freshmen year, i was desperate and I ordered it. I read about half the book. I find the time management tips very useful, but it suggested its readers write their to-do lists on scratch paper. I felt that it would cause more mess than organization.However, I did apply some of the tips and will continue to do so again in the near future after reading the book again. The first time I read it, i didn't believe that typical students could have free time and get good grades at the same time. Now I know that with good planning and time management skills, you can. I will reread the book thanks to you :)

Though I wish Newport didn't discard data from students who got material without studying hard. That makes me think that maybe these techniques only work for those naturally bright kids. Oh, here i go again...

But today I had a talk with my friend. She had tears in her eyes as she said that she would be " the bad one" in her family. Her two sisters are successful in school right now, and her parents were as well. Her oldest sister got into UCB with 2105 SAT with no studying. She [the oldest sister] would get material right after lecture and gets straight As throughout college with minimal to no studying. In fact, my friend said that many times she would get distracted and not study because her eldest sister was playing all the time and being loud and stuff. Her eldest sister got into med school straight from undergraduate. Her second sister failed most courses in high school and went to a college that was easy to get in but had a good connection/contract/program with a nursing school. There, her second sister worked her butt off for straight A's and is now doing well at the nursing school. Although her second sister failed many high school and middle school courses, she managed to get a 1900 something on the SAT. My friend, however, is struggling in CC courses. She is a high school student. She attends a high school that have their students take their courses at local CC's. Even with studying, she can only get a 1730 on the SAT. Better than the average score, but she spent a lot more effort than her sisters to get that score. This conversation makes me think hey, genetics plays a huge factor, even within full sisters.

Although I am skeptical about her oldest sister being able to do so well without studying... there must be some secret. She must be studying, however minimally and effortlessly, in private...

 

[tahayassen]

@annoyinggirl: The problem with the book is that you don't just read it once and become smart instantly. It's an incremental thing. Read the book, and summarize it for yourself as you go along. Try the advice at least once and if it doesn't work out for you, don't follow it. But don't just immediately ignore the advice without first trying it.

But today I had a talk with my friend. She had tears in her eyes as she said that she would be " the bad one" in her family. Her two sisters are successful in school right now, and her parents were as well. Her oldest sister got into UCB with 2105 SAT with no studying. She [the oldest sister] would get material right after lecture and gets straight As throughout college with minimal to no studying. In fact, my friend said that many times she would get distracted and not study because her eldest sister was playing all the time and being loud and stuff. Her eldest sister got into med school straight from undergraduate. Her second sister failed most courses in high school and went to a college that was easy to get in but had a good connection/contract/program with a nursing school. There, her second sister worked her butt off for straight A's and is now doing well at the nursing school. Although her second sister failed many high school and middle school courses, she managed to get a 1900 something on the SAT. My friend, however, is struggling in CC courses. She is a high school student. She attends a high school that have their students take their courses at local CC's. Even with studying, she can only get a 1730 on the SAT. Better than the average score, but she spent a lot more effort than her sisters to get that score. This conversation makes me think hey, genetics plays a huge factor, even within full sisters.

Although I am skeptical about her oldest sister being able to do so well without studying... there must be some secret. She must be studying, however minimally and effortlessly, in private...

You need to understand that not all studying is the same. 1 hour of my study time can equal 10 hours of your study time. But don't automatically assume it's because of my genes, because it's not. The difference isn't natural ability - it's technique. In 1 hour of my time, I focus intensely and work efficiently. I stop studying after 5 everyday. Why? Because there's no point studying as I get more tired and it gets more late. I become increasingly more inefficient and those extra hours aren't going to be used effectively. It might appear that I'm partying hard at night and that I'm barely studying, but it's just that I'm thinking smart with my time. Think smart with your time and you'll find yourself having more free time. ;)

You seem to have a distorted view that academic success is all about your genes and that if you don't have these genes, you need to be studying 24/7 or else you should feel guilty.

 

[MarneMath]

I think we'll be kidding ourselves if we didn't submit that some people do 'just' understand certain things better, for whatever reason. However, this does not automatically mean that another person cannot reach that understanding.

I like to use my brother and myself for an example. I can think about a project to build and have a pretty good idea how to build it. It's been like that since our lego days. He needs a blueprint, step by step instructions and in-depth diagrams to fully come to grasp with it. Even putting together stuff from IKEA takes me about 5-10 minutes, he'll spend about an hour to two hours.

On the other hand, growing up both studied the piano at the same time and practiced for the same length of time. I just could not get my fingers to play thes notes right. He could run through a sheet of music the first time with very little errors. I would spend a week to just be able to run through it.

So genetically, I think something is there, but the big take away is that, even though we have certain difficulties, He can still build stuff if given time, and I can still play music if given time. Just because stuff may not come as naturally to you does not mean you cannot eventually do it!

 

[uperkurk]

Genetics does play a part in how smart someone is. There is a kid called Jake Barnette who at 11 started teacher undergrads calculus. He taught himself calculus and never learned it at school. Now at 12 he is studying for hi PhD in astrophysics.

That is not technique... that is being born smart, being born with the incredible ability to grasp concepts instantly.

 

[annoyinggirl]

Genetics does play a part in how smart someone is. There is a kid called Jake Barnette who at 11 started teacher undergrads calculus. He taught himself calculus and never learned it at school. Now at 12 he is studying for hi PhD in astrophysics.

That is not technique... that is being born smart, being born with the incredible ability to grasp concepts instantly.

Is he Asian? Talent can't do anything if it is unnoticed. The kid probably had parents that bought him calculus books at the age of six. At least some encouragement had to come from his parents after noticing his talent for mathematics. Otherwise, he would be using that brain to go through the same education system that every typical kid goes through.

I agree that genetics do play a big part. But technique and willpower probably matter more.

 

[annoyinggirl]

I think we'll be kidding ourselves if we didn't submit that some people do 'just' understand certain things better, for whatever reason. However, this does not automatically mean that another person cannot reach that understanding.

I like to use my brother and myself for an example. I can think about a project to build and have a pretty good idea how to build it. It's been like that since our lego days. He needs a blueprint, step by step instructions and in-depth diagrams to fully come to grasp with it. Even putting together stuff from IKEA takes me about 5-10 minutes, he'll spend about an hour to two hours.

On the other hand, growing up both studied the piano at the same time and practiced for the same length of time. I just could not get my fingers to play thes notes right. He could run through a sheet of music the first time with very little errors. I would spend a week to just be able to run through it.

So genetically, I think something is there, but the big take away is that, even though we have certain difficulties, He can still build stuff if given time, and I can still play music if given time. Just because stuff may not come as naturally to you does not mean you cannot eventually do it!

Very interesting

 

[annoyinggirl]

As of now, I am planning to major in Psychology. When I get back to UC, I will double major in that and in Economics, a degree i feel that I would actually get to use. I failed a microeconomics class in Freshmen year, so I can't go back to UC without taking that class during a summer session, which would be very expensive and fast-paced. I still don't know if I should get a B.S or B.A in Psychology. Any thoughts? B.S is a lot more work. How much more would it benefit me?

 

[chill_factor]

it won't benefit you at all. A BS in even straight biology isn't that good, never mind psychology. A BA is less work. Just go for the straight econ degree and minor in psych. It will be useful in marketing.

You know, why do you want to do science?

Never compare with others. Compare with yourself. If you make even a tiny step of improvement every day, you're good.