To deduce *geometrically*

  • Thread starter Thread starter Hill
  • Start date Start date
  • Tags Tags
    Geometric
Click For Summary
The discussion centers on the geometric deduction of properties related to cubic equations, specifically the inflection point and curvature. The substitution of variables translates the graph so that the inflection point is at x=0, making the curvature zero at that point. It is established that terms bx and c do not affect curvature since their second derivatives vanish, while an ax^2 term would introduce non-zero curvature. The participants explore the implications of this translation and its effect on the cubic's intersections with the x-axis, emphasizing that translation preserves the cubic nature of the function. Overall, the conversation seeks clarity on the geometric reasoning behind these algebraic transformations.
Hill
Messages
735
Reaction score
576
Homework Statement
The roots of a general cubic equation in X may be viewed (in the XY-plane) as the intersections of the X-axis with the graph of a cubic of the form, Y = X^3 + AX^2 + BX + C.
(i) Show that the point of inflection of the graph occurs at X = −A/3 .
(ii) Deduce (geometrically) that the substitution X = x − A/3 will reduce the above equation to the form Y = x^3 + bx + c.
(iii) Verify this by calculation.
Relevant Equations
Y = X^3 + AX^2 + BX + C
Y = x^3 + bx + c
The (i) is straightforward: take the second derivative to 0.
The (iii) is obvious: after the substitution, ##x^2## comes from the ##X^3## with the coefficient ##-3A/3## and from the ##AX^2## with the coefficient ##A##, and they cancel.

Here is my attempt for the (ii).
The substitution translates the graph so that the inflection point sits at ##x=0##. Thus, the curvature of the graph is zero at ##x=0##.

The curvature of ##x^3## is zero at ##x=0##. The terms ##bx## and ##c## do not affect the curvature. But ##ax^2## with ##a \neq 0## has a non-zero curvature. So, if there were such a term, the curvature of the graph would be zero when the curvature of the ##x^3## cancels the curvature of ##ax^2##, i.e., when the curvature of ##x^3## is not zero, i.e., not at ##x=0##. Done.

Do you think this derivation is geometric? Any ideas for a different geometric derivation?
 
Last edited by a moderator:
Physics news on Phys.org
Hill said:
The substitution translates the graph so that the inflection point sits at
##x=0##. Thus, the curvature of the graph is zero at ##x=0##.

The curvature of ##x^3## is zero at ##x=0##. The terms ##bx## and ##c## do not affect the curvature. But ##ax^2## with ##a \neq 0## has a non-zero curvature. So, if there were such a term, the curvature of the graph would be zero when the curvature of the ##x^3## cancels the curvature of ##ax^2##, i.e., when the curvature of ##x^3## is not zero, i.e., not at ##x=0##.
I don't see anything wrong with this, but I would add that the terms bx and c do not affect the curvature, because the curvature involves the second derivative, for which the second derivative of bx + c vanishes. I don't see another way of making the point that there cannot be an ##ax^2## term, but I would try for a cleaner explanation of why this can't happen.
 
Mark44 said:
the terms bx and c do not affect the curvature, because the curvature involves the second derivative, for which the second derivative of bx + c vanishes
This is of course true. However, trying to keep it geometrical, I'd rather point to the fact that ##bx+c## is a straight line, and that does not have a (non-zero) curvature.
 
Hill said:
Homework Statement: The roots of a general cubic equation in X may be viewed (in the XY-plane) as the intersections of the X-axis with the graph of a cubic of the form, Y = X^3 + AX^2 + BX + C.
(i) Show that the point of inflection of the graph occurs at X = −A/3 .
(ii) Deduce (geometrically) that the substitution X = x − A/3 will reduce the above equation to the form Y = x^3 + bx + c.
(iii) Verify this by calculation.
Relevant Equations: Y = X^3 + AX^2 + BX + C
Y = x^3 + bx + c

The (i) is straightforward: take the second derivative to 0.
The (iii) is obvious: after the substitution, ##x^2## comes from the ##X^3## with the coefficient ##-3A/3## and from the ##AX^2## with the coefficient ##A##, and they cancel.

Here is my attempt for the (ii).
The substitution translates the graph so that the inflection point sits at ##x=0##.
And you already know from (i) that the unique point of inflection of x^3 + ax^2 + bx + c is at -a/3, so you must have -a/3 = 0.

The "geometric" derivation comes from translation of the graph by A/3 units to the left, as opposed to the algebraic derivation of (iii). This does of course assume that a translated cubic remains a cubic, but I don't think it is possible to show that without doing some algebra.
 
pasmith said:
This does of course assume that a translated cubic remains a cubic, but I don't think it is possible to show that without doing some algebra.
This is a challenge.

In case all three roots are real we don't need algebra to show that the translated cubic is at least cubic: the horizontal translation cannot change the number of intersections with the x-axis.
 
pasmith said:
This does of course assume that a translated cubic remains a cubic, but I don't think it is possible to show that without doing some algebra.
We don't need algebra to show that the translated cubic is at least cubic: translation cannot remove inflection point.
 

Similar threads

Replies
1
Views
1K
Replies
2
Views
1K
Replies
2
Views
2K
  • · Replies 5 ·
Replies
5
Views
2K
  • · Replies 1 ·
Replies
1
Views
2K
  • · Replies 7 ·
Replies
7
Views
1K
  • · Replies 7 ·
Replies
7
Views
1K
  • · Replies 15 ·
Replies
15
Views
1K
Replies
24
Views
2K
  • · Replies 5 ·
Replies
5
Views
2K