Today I Learned

[sbrothy]

With Finland, I think it's more related to their cultural past. In their national epic, the Kalevala, there is a lot of mention of words/names having power. Wizards were able to do great feats just by knowing and using the right words. Names also tended to reflect something about the person more so than in other cultures. For example, many people today have the surname "Miller" because some ancestor had that as their profession and it was then just handed down from generation to generation after that. In Finland, this wasn't always the case. Not only could surnames change from generation to generation, but they could change within a person's lifetime. This occurred in my paternal line. My grandfather was born with a surname that reflected the name of their homestead. Prior to immigrating to the US, they sold the homestead, and upon doing so changed their surname to one that reflected a region, since they no longer owned that land. Likewise, waiting to name the child was so you could get some sense of what they were like, so you could choose a name that would suit them.

Sounds like this could be said of any nationality. As to wizards and names this is also pretty common. “As above so below.”

Not to detract from Finnish magic though.

 

[fresh_42]

With Finland, I think it's more related to their cultural past. In their national epic, the Kalevala, there is a lot of mention of words/names having power. Wizards were able to do great feats just by knowing and using the right words. Names also tended to reflect something about the person more so than in other cultures.

I think, those wizzards were a paraphrase for child mortality.

 

[jack action]

It must take near the whole bottle to make the dish below look appetizing

but this is what life could be

View attachment 365153

Ah, Canada! This is where I call home (litteraly, all of this within 2 km of my home!):

Summer:

Winter:

Food:

Nice climate, nice food, and we speak the language of love!

 

[BWV]

Ah, Canada! This is where I call home (litteraly, all of this within 2 km of my home!):



Nice climate, nice food, and we speak the language of love!

Aside from the food, I love Canada, and while cold, at least the days are longer in Quebec than in Norway. but could not live anywhere without good Mexican food

But why is it the French in Louisiana developed this great cuisine and all they ever did in Canada is fries in gravy?

 

[Hornbein]

TIL that House Ways and Means Committee Chairman Dan Rostenkowski -- that's possibly the most powerful position in the House -- served 15 months in prison for abusing the congressional post office. He legally got stamps in bulk for free but then sold them instead of using them to mail letters. Rep. Joe Kolter was also convicted.

When John Kiriakou was 18 he was an intern/pageboy for Joe Kotler. Kolter had had knee surgery and John would push him about in his wheelchair. John saw Kolter, Rostenkowski, and Kolter's chief of staff playing poker. They were so intent they skipped an important House vote. He said that not only were all of them convicted of the stamp abuse, but John Kiriakou was later questioned by the FBI as to whether he knew some of the resulting cash was used to deal cocaine.

 

[fresh_42]

TIL that botany can be quite exciting!

 

[sbrothy]

TIL that botany can be quite exciting!

I'm sure but some details would be nice!

 

[fresh_42]

I'm sure but some details would be nice!

It is hard enough to know the botanical terms in my own language, let alone the English versions.

I have seen a documentary that was about sensing and communication. I was already aware of the complex symbiosis in forests and how mycelia form a communication web for trees. But I didn't know that there are parasitic plants that can distinguish between a healthy and an unhealthy potential host, or whether a plant is strong enough to host them. Others (corn) fight parasitic insects indirectly by releasing chemicals that attract the natural enemies of these insects. Or that plants react to various sound frequencies, presumably figuring out where more water can be found and whether there are obstacles in the ground. They do this with a sort of hair that is genetically the same as the hair in our ears. There was a story about wild tabac. It blooms at night to attract a night moth for pollination. But the moths leave their eggs, and their offspring eat the plant. If there are too many of them, they change to blooming during the day, calling for hummingbirds as pollinators who are harmless. So why don't they use hummingbirds by default? The answer is that the moths travel hundreds of miles per night and thus provide a greater genetic variance than the hummingbirds do. So the plant balances between conflicting goals. And many more facts, e.g., about bacteria as part of the game. Really cool.

 

[BillTre]

They do this with a sort of hair that is genetically the same as the hair in our ears.

This is highly unlikely.

 

[fresh_42]

This is highly unlikely.

Why? We share large parts of the genome. Wasn't it 50% with a banana? IIRC it was from an Israeli scientist.

Edit: It had been said in the context that those "hairs" on the plants' roots react to sound frequencies.

 

[BillTre]

Why? We share large parts of the genome. Wasn't it 70% with a banana? IIRC it was from an Israeli scientist.

Plants and animals are as far apart from each other evolutionarially as almost any eukaryotes (cellls with nuclei).
The genetics of the hair cells in ears are based on them being epithelial cells and going through a particular developmental sequence (a placode of cells (a special developmental structure) on surface, a subset of the cells developing into hair cells and growing their "hairs" (actin filled cilia-like surface extrusions)) to sense vibrations. To me at least, a genetic identity would involve replicating all of these properties. There is more to it than just a gene sequence. The hair cell type would have to replicated. Cell types involve lots of things.

 

[BWV]

There is a body of literature in machine learning / financial economics finding that generating synthetic data from a set of predictors (P) to increase the dimensionality, so P >> the number of observations and using linear ridge regressions with minimal shrinkage can capture nonlinearities in a similar fashion to neural networks with nonlinear activation functions.

This is one application of random matrix theory which I am also learning is a big current topic that has roots in physics

 

[jack action]

TIL about Aristotle's wheel paradox.

​

 

[Ivan Seeking]

Recently I learned that Sam Altman, CEO of Open AI, is also the Executive Chairman of Helion, a company claiming they will power a Microsoft plant with fusion power by 2028.

Helion is using the Theta-Pinch model to produce fusion. I wonder how much of a role AI is playing in finding solutions to challenges presented by fusion technology.

I also learned that the new AI cold war - the race to gain technological superiority through the benefits of AI - depends primarily on having the power AI will demand. It is an enormous power hog. This incentivizes leadership to enable the production of as much power as possible, as quickly as possible, regardless of environmental concerns.

Gates is pushing Generation IV fission reactor technology which promises to be melt-down proof and far more difficult to weaponize than traditional nuclear tech. We have traditional fusion research making breakthroughs in addition to the theta-pinch and z-pinch fusion models being developed, apparently with significant success. So that all seems very promising but it doesn't provide power today.Gates plans to build a micro nuclear, Generation IV fission reactor, for every major data center as soon as the tech is ready. He already broke ground in Wyoming for his Natrium plant. Testing on a more advanced technology should begin in Idaho in about a year. So hopefully that isn't too far off.

The thinking is that we need to produce as much power as possible as quickly as possible, with virtually no regard for the consequences, and hope AI can help fix everything later. The race to win AI superiority is considered to be critical and a matter of National Security, and takes priority over other concerns.

As if we didn't already face enough energy challenges! On a personal level this is all horrifying. But it seems the die is already cast. We just have to do the best we can and try to minimize the damage. And it seems we are betting everything on AI being everything promised.

 

[Hornbein]

When AI defeated humans in StarCraft II I knew it would take command of military tactics.

My Dad was the consultant for KMS Fusion back in the 70's. He said fusion wasn't clean. The fast neutrons reduce the containment vessel to radioactive waste.

It's worth noting the whole system depends on satellites, which cannot be defended other than by threatening nuclear annihilation of anyone who dares mess with them.

 

[BillTre]

Star Trek Day is celebrated every year on September 8, the date marking the premiere of the original Star Trek television series in 1966.

 

[Ivan Seeking]

It's worth noting the whole system depends on satellites, which cannot be defended other than by threatening nuclear annihilation of anyone who dares mess with them.

Do you mean like Colossus did in The Forbin Project?

Great movie btw! Old but in many ways, highly relevant today.

 

[sbrothy]

It is hard enough to know the botanical terms in my own language, let alone the English versions.

I have seen a documentary that was about sensing and communication. I was already aware of the complex symbiosis in forests and how mycelia form a communication web for trees. But I didn't know that there are parasitic plants that can distinguish between a healthy and an unhealthy potential host, or whether a plant is strong enough to host them. Others (corn) fight parasitic insects indirectly by releasing chemicals that attract the natural enemies of these insects. Or that plants react to various sound frequencies, presumably figuring out where more water can be found and whether there are obstacles in the ground. They do this with a sort of hair that is genetically the same as the hair in our ears. There was a story about wild tabac. It blooms at night to attract a night moth for pollination. But the moths leave their eggs, and their offspring eat the plant. If there are too many of them, they change to blooming during the day, calling for hummingbirds as pollinators who are harmless. So why don't they use hummingbirds by default? The answer is that the moths travel hundreds of miles per night and thus provide a greater genetic variance than the hummingbirds do. So the plant balances between conflicting goals. And many more facts, e.g., about bacteria as part of the game. Really cool.

I’ve also always wondered how parasites know which organs to eat in the order that keeps the host alive longest.

 

[fresh_42]

I’ve also always wondered how parasites know which organs to eat in the order that keeps the host alive longest.

A day later, I saw an even more surprising experiment. There is a plant in Chile that mimics its surroundings by growing its leaves in the shape of the leaves around it, presumably to avoid being eaten. This alone is already astonishing, since how the heck is that codeable in DNA? A varying shape! Now, the experiment showed that it also mimics the shape of leaves when surrounded by photographs of leaves, in the experiment, Ginkgo leaves. How does it "see"?

 

[sbrothy]

I’ve also always wondered how parasites know which organs to eat in the order that keeps the host alive longest.

Incidentally, a friend of mine made the postulate that there has been cases of human infection with Ophiocordyceps unilateralis (which is not so far out as it may sound), but he meant that the victims had crawled to top in tall buildings. When I asked where he had picked that up he answered, surprise: YouTube!

 

[fresh_42]

When I asked where he had picked that up he answered, surprise: YouTube!

I saw it on TV, presumably from one of the usual suspects: BBC, arte, 3SAT, Terra X, or so.

 

[sbrothy]

I saw it on TV, presumably from one of the usual suspects: BBC, arte, 3SAT, Terra X, or so.

Well, I wouldn’t expect BBC to be unserious but I guess it depends on what program you’re watching and what BBC channel it’s on.

 

[fresh_42]

Well, I wouldn’t expect BBC to be unserious but I guess it depends on what program you’re watching and what BBC channel it’s on.

I can't watch BBC here, I only read it when the production companies are listed.

 

[sbrothy]

… that Mercury may have a 16km thick layer of diamond under it’s crust.

As with BBC, when NASA says it (or rather based on their data) it must be true!

 

[sbrothy]

I saw it on TV, presumably from one of the usual suspects: BBC, arte, 3SAT, Terra X, or so.

I sure hope you didn't see infectees crawling to the top of high buildings and biting them self fast to antennas or other towering fixtures waiting for giant sheep to come eat them?!



EDIT: Or did I mix up two types of parasite here? I might have. My friend meant the latter one though.

 

[sbrothy]

He meant this one.

Hope these references are OK… (Expression of trematode-induced zombie-ant behavior is strongly associated with temperature).

 

[Janus]

Do you mean like Colossus did in The Forbin Project?

Great movie btw! Old but in many ways, highly relevant today.

Based on the novel by D. F. Jones, which is the first of a trilogy. The other two being "The Fall of Colossus" and "Colossus and the Crab".

 

[sbrothy]

… a new word and was just about to start a new thread called something like "Elongated Polysyllables Presently Seeing Utilization" when the stupid hit me. So I'll just post it here.

I used to think that "stereoisomerism" was a long and esoteric word when I encountered "immunomodulatory" today. Talk about tongue-twisters.

 

[DaveC426913]

I also learned that the new AI cold war - the race to gain technological superiority through the benefits of AI - depends primarily on having the power AI will demand. It is an enormous power hog. This incentivizes leadership to enable the production of as much power as possible, as quickly as possible, regardless of environmental concerns.
...

The thinking is that we need to produce as much power as possible as quickly as possible, with virtually no regard for the consequences, and hope AI can help fix everything later. The race to win AI superiority is considered to be critical and a matter of National Security, and takes priority over other concerns.

As if we didn't already face enough energy challenges! On a personal level this is all horrifying. But it seems the die is already cast. We just have to do the best we can and try to minimize the damage. And it seems we are betting everything on AI being everything promised.

This is big. I expect this will be the driver for much of the economic and political decisions over the next 5-10 years, with indirect impacts on most of us.

 

[sbrothy]

This is big. I expect this will be the driver for much of the economic and political decisions over the next 5-10 years, with indirect impacts on most of us.

This exchange you’ve got going here is indeed grim and depressing. I thought it was enough to avoid the news, but not so obviously. I’ll have to dig myself a hole or become a fanatic prepper to keep up my spirits!

 

[symbolipoint]

TIL that botany can be quite exciting!

A few people may have some idea what that means. One does a college level general Biological science course and find it too confusing and with too much to learn. One may have a chance and choose a more specific narrow Biological science course and do well learn much and enjoy. Why? Less generalising needed? Specific examples shown and studied?

 

[BillTre]

I’ve also always wondered how parasites know which organs to eat in the order that keeps the host alive longest.

Some parasites may be kind of stupid and not that"careful". Those that do avoid essential eatables probably use the mechanisms similar to how cells in a body "know" where to go. The move4ment determining cells will have receptors for targeting or avoiding particular body part markers.
This is something that would get selected for over many, many generations as the most successful parasites better survived and reproduced.

There is a plant in Chile that mimics its surroundings by growing its leaves in the shape of the leaves around it, presumably to avoid being eaten. This alone is already astonishing, since how the heck is that codeable in DNA? A varying shape! Now, the experiment showed that it also mimics the shape of leaves when surrounded by photographs of leaves, in the experiment, Ginkgo leaves. How does it "see"?

Similar to the above conjecture, the mimicking plant would sense chemicals from the neighboring plant(s) and respond with a selected response to develop the different kinds of leaves.
Plants are well known for putting out chemicals for various reasons, poisoning competitors, attracting predator of things eating them, etc. There is also the proposed inter-tree underground fungal communication network. Many possible pathways for communication to happen.

 

[BillTre]

A few people may have some idea what that means. One does a college level general Biological science course and find it too confusing and with too much to learn. One may have a chance and choose a more specific narrow Biological science course and do well learn much and enjoy. Why? Less generalising needed? Specific examples shown and studied?

Find something your are interested in doing with plants and then learn more about it.
Growing a garden for example, or maybe some pot (where legal). There are lots of tricks to learn to get things to grow. Alternatively, identifying plants in the wild if you like hiking.

 

[symbolipoint]

Find something your are interested in doing with plants and then learn more about it.
Growing a garden for example, or maybe some pot (where legal). There are lots of tricks to learn to get things to grow. Alternatively, identifying plants in the wild if you like hiking.

Something like those, too. But I was referring to coursework. Student in some "General Biology" course can feel lost and maybe overwelmed. Some student who goes into a specific course like Botany may feel and find he makes great progress. More pointed; more structured.

 

[BillTre]

Well introductory courses can be kind of diffuse on some points, especially in biology where there are an almost unlimited amount of details.
Sadly, many courses have somewhat uninteresting prerequisite courses that can ruin all the fun.

When I was an undergraduate, I took a lot of chemistry courses. I started out interested (chemistry is based on physics aspects) and motivated (chemistry underlies all of biology), but I increasingly lost that motivation as I got deeper into organic chem with all it details spreading out in all directions in chemical morphology space. But once I got into biochem I really liked it because I could easily find connections with biology (my ultimate goal to understand).
You need to find a similar connection. Sometimes you don't (like me and most literature).

 

[fresh_42]

Similar to the above conjecture, the mimicking plant would sense chemicals from the neighboring plant(s) and respond with a selected response to develop the different kinds of leaves.

No. The experiment excluded this possibility. b/w photos of Gingko leaves don't release anything. And Gingko does not even occur in Chile.

 

[BillTre]

No. The experiment excluded this possibility. b/w photos of Gingko leaves don't release anything.

How is this known?
What about the roots or other plant parts releasing something?

Opps, missed the photos part.
Need a reference.

 

[fresh_42]

Why? Less generalising needed? Specific examples shown and studied?

See post #6658.

 

[BillTre]

See post #6658.

Not seeing an explicit reference there. However, I had issues with something else they said. See post #6659 and #6661.

 

[fresh_42]

How is this known?

No. They still study that. Hypothesis is that some cells can distinguish light and dark.

What about the roots or other plant parts releasing something?

No, it was a single plant under lab conditions. They even checked different shapes on the same plant by having a setup like a basement and first floor. The plant was accidentally found in a rainforest.

Opps, missed the photos part.
Need a reference.

It was on TV. I don't have a reference.

 

[BillTre]

Plants can sense light vs. dark (as in growing toward the light or circadian responses), but seeing images is more unlikely.
The same source also said something I had doubts about which raises questions for me about them as a source.

 

[fresh_42]

Plants can sense light vs. dark (as in growing toward the light or circadian responses), but seeing images is more unlikely.
The same source also said something I had doubts about which raises questions for me about them as a source.

Actually seeing the results on TV can be very convincing, and it wasn't trash TV, it was a serious documentary on a serious channel with a serious Chilean biologist who discovered found that plant.

 

[symbolipoint]

See post #6658.

BillTre in #6683 has his own way of saying what I was trying to say, maybe slightly different examples.

 

[BillTre]

#6683 is my post.

 

[Ivan Seeking]

This is big. I expect this will be the driver for much of the economic and political decisions over the next 5-10 years, with indirect impacts on most of us.

Yes indeed. I am betting (professionally) the micro nuclear Gen IV fission reactors are the key. Fusion may come along soon as well but that is still pie in the sky. We've been building micro nuclear plants for subs and ships for over 60 years. Gen IV is new technology but not entirely unproven. The Natrium plant Gates is building in Wyoming isn't the latest and greatest, but it is ready now (hopefully).