Top heavier than Higgs. Why not found at Fermilab?

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Discussion Overview

The discussion centers on the relationship between the mass of the top quark and the Higgs boson, particularly why the Higgs was conclusively found at the LHC rather than at Fermilab's Tevatron. Participants explore the implications of luminosity and energy on particle production rates and the evidence for the Higgs boson from previous experiments.

Discussion Character

  • Exploratory
  • Technical explanation
  • Debate/contested

Main Points Raised

  • Some participants note that the top quark is heavier than the Higgs boson and question why the LHC was necessary for the Higgs discovery.
  • There is a discussion about the evidence for the Higgs from the Tevatron, with some suggesting it was around 2.5-3 standard deviations.
  • Participants propose that both higher luminosity and higher energy at the LHC contribute to the increased production rates of particles.
  • One participant questions the sensitivity of production rates to energy changes, specifically comparing 2 TeV to 7 TeV, and seeks clarification on the relative importance of luminosity versus energy.
  • Another participant provides a quantitative comparison, stating that the cross-section for Higgs production at the Tevatron is approximately 1 pb, while at the LHC (7 TeV) it is around 15 pb.
  • It is mentioned that the higher energy at the LHC significantly increases the cross-section for top quark production by a factor of 20-30.

Areas of Agreement / Disagreement

Participants express varying views on the relative importance of luminosity and energy in particle production, and there is no consensus on the sensitivity of production rates to energy changes.

Contextual Notes

The discussion includes assumptions about the relationship between energy and production rates, which may not be fully resolved. The role of clean channels in Higgs production is also noted as a factor influencing the need for higher luminosity.

nrqed
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The title says it all. The top is heavier than the Higgs boson. In that case, why was the LHC needed to find the Higgs conclusively? (a related question is: how strong was the evidence for the Higgs from the Tevatron?) Is the answer simply a question of higher luminosity at the LHC?? Or is the fact of working at higher energy at the LHC leads to much higher cross sections for Higgs production?


Thanks!
 
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See that thread for an earlier discussion.

Top-quarks have a very clear decay signature and a large production cross-section.

how strong was the evidence for the Higgs from the Tevatron?
I think the last update had something like 2.5-3 standard deviations.

Is the answer simply a question of higher luminosity at the LHC?? Or is the fact of working at higher energy at the LHC leads to much higher cross sections for Higgs production?
Higher luminosity and higher energy are both important. And the detectors are better.
 
mfb said:
See that thread for an earlier discussion.

Top-quarks have a very clear decay signature and a large production cross-section.


I think the last update had something like 2.5-3 standard deviations.


Higher luminosity and higher energy are both important. And the detectors are better.

Thank you for your reply and for your posts in the other thread. Very illuminating.

I see that the fact that much fewer clean channels in the Higgs case makes a higher luminosity critical. I would like to understand better the role of the energy. Having a higher center of mass energy increases the production rates, certainly. Are the production rates very sensitive to the energy? I mean, does going from 2 TeV to 7 TeV make a big difference in the number of events or is it a very small factor compared to the luminosity role?

Thank you for your expertise.

Patrick
 
For the top-quark, the the higher energy at the LHC increased the cross-section (and therefore the particles per integrated luminosity) by a factor of 20-30.
Higgs: ~1pb at the tevatron, ~15pb at the LHC (7 TeV) according to this article.
Energy is really important for heavy particles.
 
Let's use the other thread, please.
 

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