Torque question in Deltoid muscle

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dcmf
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Homework Statement
A woman lifts a 3.6-kg barbell in each hand with her arm in a horizontal position at the side of her body and holds it there for 3 s (see the figure below). What force does the deltoid muscle in her shoulder exert on the humerus bone while holding the barbell? The deltoid attaches 13 cm from the shoulder joint and makes a 13 degree angle with the humerus. The barbell in her hand is 0.55 m from the shoulder joint, and the center of mass of her 4.0-kg arm is 0.24 m from the joint.
Relevant Equations
Tnet, T=Flsinθ, Fg=mg
Here's a picture the question provided.
Diagram of a human arm in side view showing the deltoid muscle as a red band running from the shoulder to the upper arm, with a 13° angle marked between the muscle and the humerus bone.


I tried solving this question two ways (assuming the axis of rotation is at the shoulder joint) and am getting wildly different answers.
Handwritten torque calculation: F_Dy (0.13) = 4.0(9.8)(0.24) + 3.6(9.8)(0.55), then F_Dy/0.13 = 9.408 + 19.404 over 0.13 = 221.63 N, then F_DonH = F_Dy/sin 13° = 221.63 N / sin 13° = 17.05 N, with a small diagram showing a 13° angle.

Handwritten torque working: F on H (0.13) sin(2.9 rad) = 4.0(9.8)(0.24) + 3.6(9.8)(0.55), then F on H = (9.408 + 19.404) / (0.13 sin(2.9 rad)) = 28.812 / 0.0311 = 926.43 N.


Some potential reasons there's a discrepancy:
- I'm not super confident about my use of the torque equation (T=FlSinθ), especially the angle part, which I think needs radians as an input
- Question mentioned something about 3 seconds but I never used that in any of my calculations and this is a one-part question so its not as if it could be used later on

Thanks in advance!
 
##\sin(13^\circ) < 1## so you cannot possibly have done the math right in the first attempt as dividing something by a positive number < 1 cannot possibly give a smaller number.
 
If you draw a free body diagram, it would be evident how far from reality that first result of 17 N is, considering that the barbell weights 35 N.
 
Thanks for the input.
Orodruin said:
##\sin(13^\circ) < 1## so you cannot possibly have done the math right in the first attempt as dividing something by a positive number < 1 cannot possibly give a smaller number.

You're absolutely correct, there was a calculation error there but that results in about 985.2N, but I think the answer needs about 2 significant figures so there's still (at least what seems to me) a discrepancy between the two values.

Also is 3s really not being used at all in the question? Just a red herring?
 
Lnewqban said:
If you draw a free body diagram, it would be evident how far from reality that first result of 17 N is, considering that the barbell weights 35 N.
Handwritten free-body diagram of a forearm lever: pivot labelled AoR at left, arm 13 cm from pivot angled 13 degrees with force F_D on H, centre of mass 24 cm from pivot, 3.6 kg weight 55 cm from pivot; below, a force diagram showing F_D on H y upward and two mg weights downward.

I had a really poorly done sketch so I omitted it 😳 The numbers didn't look right to me either though. But I just have terrible intuition with math and it didn't click that dividing by a decimal should result in a bigger number :')
Thank you
 
Attachments
  • Hand-drawn free-body diagram of an arm lifting a 3.6 kg weight: a horizontal lever with axis of rotation at left, F_DELTOID acting upward at 13 cm angled 13° from the lever, CoM arm 24 cm, and the weight 55 cm from the axis; below, a force diagram with F_DELTOID upward and two mg downward arrows.
    1710610492007.png
    11.5 KB · Views: 134
dcmf said:
View attachment 341914
I had a really poorly done sketch so I omitted it 😳 The numbers didn't look right to me either though. But I just have terrible intuition with math and it didn't click that dividing by a decimal should result in a bigger number :')
Thank you
Your FBD for summation of moments is correct.
The greater the deviation of the line of action of the muscle from the vertical, the greater the actual force respect to the vertical component (which you have properly calculated).
My calculation of the actual muscle effort gives 986.25 N.
 
dcmf said:
You're absolutely correct, there was a calculation error there but that results in about 985.2N, but I think the answer needs about 2 significant figures so there's still (at least what seems to me) a discrepancy between the two values.
Your 2.9 radians is far too imprecise to represent 167°. It is closer to 166°, which makes a big difference in the sine (0.225 vs 0.239).

dcmf said:
Also is 3s really not being used at all in the question? Just a red herring?
For computing the static force in equilibrium, yes, it is a red herring.
 
dcmf said:
View attachment 341914
I had a really poorly done sketch so I omitted it 😳 The numbers didn't look right to me either though. But I just have terrible intuition with math and it didn't click that dividing by a decimal should result in a bigger number :')

I know it’s not necessary for the computation of ##T##, but a FBD should include the reaction forces at the shoulder joint too.