Train whistles; moving/stationary sound and velocity

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Homework Help Overview

The problem involves two trains emitting sound at a frequency of 516 Hz, with one train stationary and the other moving. The stationary train conductor hears a beat frequency of 3.5 Hz as the moving train approaches. The task is to determine the speed of the moving train using the Doppler effect and beat frequency concepts.

Discussion Character

  • Exploratory, Assumption checking, Mathematical reasoning

Approaches and Questions Raised

  • The original poster attempts to use the beat frequency to find the frequency perceived by the stationary observer and applies the Doppler equation to calculate the speed of the moving train. Some participants question the correctness of the calculations and the application of the beat frequency formula.

Discussion Status

There is a mix of agreement and disagreement regarding the calculations. One participant affirms the original poster's approach, while another suggests a potential error in the use of the beat frequency formula. The original poster defends their method, indicating a productive discussion with differing interpretations.

Contextual Notes

Participants are navigating the nuances of the beat frequency concept and its application in this context, with some expressing uncertainty about the correctness of the original calculations and the implications of the results.

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Homework Statement



Two trains emit 516-Hz whistles. One train is stationary. The conductor on the stationary train hears a 3.5-Hz beat frequency when the other train approaches. What is the speed of the moving train?

b = beat
f'_b = 3.5 Hz
f = 516 Hz

Homework Equations



f_b = |f_1 - f_2|
v_sound = 343 m/s (speed of sound in 20°C air)
Doppler equation for "source moving toward stationary observer":
f' = f/(1+(v_source/v_sound))

The Attempt at a Solution



First I'll tweak the beat frequency equation to solve for what the stationary train conductor hears as the frequency of the moving train's whistle.
f'_b = |f' - f| <<< f' > f since the train is moving TOWARD him.
3.5 Hz = |f' - 516 Hz|
f' = 519.5 Hz

Now I'll substitute all values into the Doppler equation to find the velocity of the moving train.
519.5 Hz = 516 Hz / (1 - (v_source / 343 m/s) )
v_source = 2.31 m/s

Though possible, this seems like a low speed for a moving train. Did I do everything correctly?
Thank you!
 
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Yes you did everything fine.
 
I may be a little late, but I think I got the error.
The beat frequency is:
f_b = (f1 - f2) / 2
You forgot to divide by 2. Then you get a sommewhat higher velocity.
 
Actually you don't divide by 2 in that formula. I got the answer right. But thanks for checking for me!

You may be thinking of the formula to check if a pipe is closed by looking at the frequency of sound traveling through it:
f_closed = (fn1-fn2)/2
n_closed = fn1/f1closed
 

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