Doppler effect train frequency question

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Homework Help Overview

The discussion revolves around a Doppler effect problem involving a train moving towards and then away from a crossing signal, with a focus on the frequency perceived by a passenger. The original poster attempts to determine the frequency detected after the train passes the signal, given the initial frequency heard while approaching.

Discussion Character

  • Exploratory, Conceptual clarification, Mathematical reasoning

Approaches and Questions Raised

  • Participants discuss the interpretation of the frequency values, questioning whether the 720 Hz is the source frequency or the detected frequency. There are attempts to clarify the application of the Doppler effect in both scenarios of approaching and receding from the source.

Discussion Status

Participants are actively engaging in clarifying the problem setup and the correct application of the Doppler effect. Some guidance has been offered regarding the distinction between source and detected frequencies, and there is an acknowledgment of the need to approach the problem in two parts.

Contextual Notes

There is some confusion regarding the definitions of the frequencies involved, and participants are working through the implications of the train's motion on the perceived frequency. The original poster's calculations are noted as being incorrect, prompting further discussion.

Yoruichi
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Homework Statement



When a train running at a speed of 72 km/h approaches a crossing signal, a passenger in the train hears the siren at 720 Hz. What frequency does the passenger detect after the train passes the crossing signal? Take the speed of sound in air to be 340 m/s.

Homework Equations



Doppler effect

The Attempt at a Solution



First I convert the speed of train from 72 km/h into 20 m/s.
Speed of detector = 20 m/s
Speed of source = 0
Speed of sound = 340 m/s
Frequency of source = 720 Hz
Frequency of detector = ?

Using Doppler effect formula:

Fd = (340 - 20) / 340 x 720 (Since the detector is moving away from source, we want to make the denominator greater)
Fd = 677.64 Hz

But this isn't the answer. (The answer is 640 Hz)
May I know which part of my attempt goes wrong?
 
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Hello,

At first the train is approaching the crossing. So what the passenger hears is not the frequency of the siren ...
 
At first, the train is moving toward the source, so the detected frequency is shifted higher. Is 720 Hz the source frequency or the detected frequency?

When the train moves away from the source, the frequency detected by the train will be lower than the source. Use the true source frequency to compute the detected frequency in this case.
 
BvU said:
Hello,

At first the train is approaching the crossing. So what the passenger hears is not the frequency of the siren ...

Dr. Courtney said:
At first, the train is moving toward the source, so the detected frequency is shifted higher. Is 720 Hz the source frequency or the detected frequency?

When the train moves away from the source, the frequency detected by the train will be lower than the source. Use the true source frequency to compute the detected frequency in this case.

Oh I see! So the 720 Hz is actually detected frequency instead of source frequency..
Therefore I have to divide my solution into two parts, which is to find out the frequency of detector first, and then only continue with my attempt above!

720 Hz = (340 + 20) / 340 x Fs
Fs = 720 x 340/360
= 680 Hz

Fd = (340 - 20) / 340 x 680
= 640 Hz

Thanks for the clarification!
 

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