Troubles with a Dynamics exercise

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    Dynamics Exercise
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Homework Help Overview

The problem involves two carts on a flat surface being pushed by an external force. The objective is to determine the forces exerted between the two carts while considering them as particles and neglecting friction.

Discussion Character

  • Exploratory, Assumption checking, Conceptual clarification

Approaches and Questions Raised

  • Participants discuss the application of Newton's laws and the relationships between the forces acting on the carts. There is an exploration of free-body diagrams and the implications of Newton's third law.

Discussion Status

Some participants have offered guidance on the correct application of Newton's laws and the need for free-body diagrams. There is ongoing exploration of the relationships between the forces, with differing interpretations of the initial equations presented by the original poster.

Contextual Notes

Participants are working under the assumption that friction is negligible and are questioning the correctness of the initial equations used to describe the forces. There is a focus on ensuring that the forces comply with Newton's third law.

Felafel
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Homework Statement



Two carts (1&2) on a flat surface, are pushed by an external force (##\vec{F}##), exerted on 1 (the carts are motionless and touching each other).

Consider the two objects as particles and take no notice of any friction.

F=12N; mass of 1 (##m_1##)=4,0 kg; mass of 2 (##m_2##)= 2,0 kg.
Find the intensity and the direction of the force exerted by 1 on 2 (##\vec{F_{12}}##) and the force exerted by 2 on 1 (##\vec{F_{21}}##)

The Attempt at a Solution


I tried solving the system given by:
##\vec{F_{12}}=\vec{F} - \vec{F_{21}}## and ##\vec{F_{21}}= m_2 * a##

obtaining:
##m_1 * a = 12 - m_2 *a## ##\Rightarrow## ##a=2,0 m/s^2##

and thus:
##\vec{F_{21}}=2,0kg * (-2,0 m/s^2)=-4 N## with the minus sign, as this force is opposite to F
##\Rightarrow## ##\vec{F_{12}}=16N##
which, according to my textbook is not the right result.
I don't get where are the mistakes, though. Can anyone help me please?
 
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Your first equations are not right - you're mixing forces acting on different objects.
You need to draw some free-body diagrams and then apply Newton 2 to them.

What will be the relation between the 2 forces you're asked to find?
 
Felafel said:
##\vec{F_{12}}=\vec{F} - \vec{F_{21}}##
This violates Newton's 3rd law.
 
allright, should it be like this then?
i find the acceleration, which is:
##a=\frac{\vec{F}}{m_1+m_2}## = ##2 m/s^2##
in the free-body diagram of 1 there is ##\vec{F_{21}}##
so I multiply the acceleration for ##m_2##, which gives ##\vec{F_{21}}=-4N## (because its direction is opposite to that of the x-axis)
and, for Newton 3, there must be an equal and opposite force, which means ##\vec{F_{12}}=4N##
 
Felafel said:
allright, should it be like this then?
i find the acceleration, which is:
##a=\frac{\vec{F}}{m_1+m_2}## = ##2 m/s^2##
in the free-body diagram of 1 there is ##\vec{F_{21}}##
so I multiply the acceleration for ##m_2##, which gives ##\vec{F_{21}}=-4N## (because its direction is opposite to that of the x-axis)
and, for Newton 3, there must be an equal and opposite force, which means ##\vec{F_{12}}=4N##

Yes, this looks right :)
You can check the answer by seeing that the resultant force on m1 is therefore 8N which agrees with its acceleration.
 

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