Two cylinders rotating with contact at an angle (reformulation of the problem)

In summary, the conversation discusses a problem involving two cylinders pressing against each other with a force and experiencing torques and moments of inertia. The task is to draw a phase diagram for different values of parameters representing the angular velocities of the cylinders. There is also a discussion about whether translation motion is allowed and the need for qualitative analysis in solving the differential equations.
  • #1
wrobel
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Some time ago there was a problem with the following picture somewhere out here. I think this problem was underestimated a little bit.
t.png


Let us reformulate the problem. Assume that each cylinder, if it was not influenced by the other one, could rotate freely about its fixed axis. But the cylinders press each other with a force ##N>0##. The coefficient of dry friction between them is ##k>0##. Assume also that both cylinders experience torques ##\tau_P,\tau_Q##. The torques are constants and directed along the corresponding axes of cylinders. Moments of inertia ##J_P,J_Q## of cylinders are given.
The task is to draw a phase diagramme on the plane ##\omega_P,\omega_Q## for different values of parameters. Here ##\omega_P,\omega_Q## are the angular velocities. I even think that it would be interesting for an educational journal. I think to give it to my students.

Any comments are welcome :)
 
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  • #2
In the case of ##\theta=\pi/2## torque of P and Q push each other to move along the axis. Do you allow such translation motion to P and Q ?
 
  • #3
no, I consider the motion along the axis to be forbidden for both cylinders
 
  • #4
So we allow the rolls slip in that case. In general we allow slip of the axis component of roll velocity v sin##\theta##.
 
  • #5
anuttarasammyak said:
So we allow the rolls slip in that case.
yes and they are slipping for any nonzero angular velocities; ##\theta\in(0,\pi/2]##
 
  • #6
@wrobel I'd be interested to see how you went about solving this. I haven't gotten very far o0)

Draw a Cartesian frame ##O\mathrm{xyz}## with ##O## at the point of contact of the cylinders, the ##\mathrm{y}## axis parallel to the axis of ##P## and the ##\mathrm{z}## axis pointing vertically upward. Let the unit vectors parallel to the axes of each cylinder be ##\mathbf{e}_P := \mathbf{e}_y## and ##\mathbf{e}_Q := \mathbf{e}_y \cos{\theta} + \mathbf{e}_x\sin{\theta}##. Writing ##\boldsymbol{\omega}_P = \omega_P \mathbf{e}_P## and ##\boldsymbol{\omega}_Q = \omega_Q \mathbf{e}_Q## the relative velocity of the cylinders at the point of contact is $$\boldsymbol{V} := \boldsymbol{v}_P(O,t) - \boldsymbol{v}_Q(O,t) = (r_p \boldsymbol{\omega}_P + r_Q \boldsymbol{\omega}_Q) \times \mathbf{e}_z = \mathbf{e}_x(r_P \omega_P + r_Q \omega_Q \cos{\theta}) - \mathbf{e}_y r_Q \omega_Q \sin{\theta} $$Now define ##\hat{\boldsymbol{V}} := \boldsymbol{V} / |\mathbf{V}|##. The friction force acting on ##P## due to ##Q## is ##\mathbf{F}_P = - k N \hat{\boldsymbol{V}} = - \mathbf{F}_Q##. Let ##\mathcal{A}_P## and ##\mathcal{A}_Q## be arbitrary points along the axes of ##P## and ##Q## respectively. The moment ##\Gamma_P## associated with ##\mathbf{F}_P## about the axis ##(\mathcal{A}_P, \mathbf{e}_y)## of ##P## is$$\Gamma_P = r_P \mathbf{e}_z \times (- k N \hat{\boldsymbol{V}}) \cdot \mathbf{e}_y = \frac{-r_P k N(r_P \omega_P + r_Q \omega_Q \cos{\theta})}{|\boldsymbol{V}|}$$Similarly, the moment ##\Gamma_Q## associated with ##\mathbf{F}_Q## about the axis ##(\mathcal{A}_Q, \mathbf{e}_Q)## of ##Q## is $$\begin{align*}

\Gamma_Q &= -r_Q \mathbf{e}_z \times (k N \hat{\boldsymbol{V}}) \cdot (\mathbf{e}_y \cos{\theta} + \mathbf{e}_x\sin{\theta}) \\ \\

&= \frac{-r_Q k N([r_p \omega_p + r_Q \omega_Q \cos{\theta}]\cos{\theta} + r_Q \omega_Q \sin^2{\theta})}{|\boldsymbol{V}|} = \frac{-r_Q k N(r_p \omega_p \cos{\theta} + r_Q \omega_Q )}{|\boldsymbol{V}|}

\end{align*}$$The system of differential equations to solve is$$\begin{bmatrix} \dot{\omega}_P \\ \dot{\omega}_Q \end{bmatrix} = \begin{bmatrix} \frac{1}{J_P} (\tau_P + \Gamma_P) \\ \frac{1}{J_Q} (\tau_Q + \Gamma_Q) \end{bmatrix}$$and it looks like it is a bit difficult to solve :nb)
 
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  • #7
Qualitative analysis of ODE is needed I guess
 
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1. What is the problem of two cylinders rotating with contact at an angle?

The problem involves two cylinders that are in contact with each other at an angle and are rotating. This can occur in various scenarios such as gears, wheels, or rotating machinery. The goal is to analyze the contact forces and motion of the cylinders to understand the behavior of the system.

2. What are the main factors that affect the contact forces in this problem?

The main factors that influence the contact forces are the angle of contact between the cylinders, the material properties of the cylinders, and the rotational speeds of the cylinders. Other factors such as surface roughness and lubrication can also play a role.

3. How can this problem be solved?

There are various methods for solving this problem, depending on the specific scenario and assumptions made. One approach is to use analytical equations and formulas to calculate the contact forces and motion of the cylinders. Another approach is to use numerical methods such as finite element analysis to simulate the behavior of the system.

4. What are the practical applications of studying this problem?

The study of two cylinders rotating with contact at an angle has many practical applications in engineering and physics. It can help in designing and optimizing gear systems, understanding the behavior of rotating machinery, and predicting wear and failure of components in contact.

5. Are there any limitations or assumptions when solving this problem?

Yes, there are limitations and assumptions that need to be considered when solving this problem. Some common assumptions include idealized geometry and materials, neglecting friction and other external forces, and assuming steady-state conditions. These assumptions may not accurately reflect real-world scenarios and can affect the accuracy of the results.

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