Two gases separated by a piston

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Homework Help Overview

The problem involves two ideal gases contained adiabatically and separated by a fixed, insulating piston. The initial conditions of pressure, volume, temperature, and number of molecules for each gas are provided, and the goal is to determine the equilibrium state of the system.

Discussion Character

  • Exploratory, Assumption checking, Conceptual clarification

Approaches and Questions Raised

  • The original poster attempts to analyze the system by identifying the variables and equations involved, noting a discrepancy between the number of variables and equations. Some participants suggest considering the adiabatic expansion of gas 1 and its implications on the equilibrium state. Others question the assumptions made regarding the initial conditions and the behavior of the gases during the process.

Discussion Status

Participants are actively engaging with the problem, with some offering hints and others expressing a desire to compare solutions. There is a recognition of the complexity of the problem, and while some guidance has been provided, the discussion remains open-ended without a definitive resolution.

Contextual Notes

Participants note the constraints of the problem, including the adiabatic conditions and the fixed nature of the piston, which may influence the behavior of the gases. There is also mention of the ideal gas law and its application to both sides of the piston, highlighting the need for careful consideration of the system's parameters.

GandalfTheGrey

Homework Statement


[/B]
Two ideal gases are contained adiabatically and separated by an insulating, fixed piston that blocks the molecules of gas 2 but allows the molecules of gas 1 through(in both directions). The initial pressures, volumes, temperatures and number of molecules on each side is given. What is the equilibrium state?

Homework Equations



I don't think they're explicitly necessary for the question.

The Attempt at a Solution


[/B]
The volumes remain the same, so we basically have 5 variables: The final pressures, temperatures and the net number of molecules that went through the piston. At equilibrium, the partial pressure of gas 1 must be equal on both sides, that gives 1 equation. The ideal gas law, applied to both sides gives 2 more, and the fact that the whole system's internal energy is constant gives 1 more. So I have 5 variables and only 4 equations. What am I missing?
 
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The portion of gas 1 that has remained in its chamber at final equilibrium has experienced and adiabatic reversible expansion in driving the other portion of this gas through the piston into the other chamber.
 
Now that I've given you the above hint, have you figured out how to solve this problem?
 
Chestermiller said:
Now that I've given you the above hint, have you figured out how to solve this problem?
I think this means that $$P_{1f}V_1^{\gamma} = P_{1i}(\frac{n_{1rf}}{n_1}V_1)^\gamma$$ Where ##P_1## is the pressure of gas 1 on the right, ##V_1## is the volume of the right chamber, ##n_1## is the total number of moles of gas 1, ##n_{1rf}## is the final number of moles of gas 1 remaining in the right chamber at equilibrium. (I'm assuming that gas 1 starts on the right side and gas 2 on the left side)
 
GandalfTheGrey said:
I think this means that $$P_{1f}V_1^{\gamma} = P_{1i}(\frac{n_{1rf}}{n_1}V_1)^\gamma$$ Where ##P_1## is the pressure of gas 1 on the right, ##V_1## is the volume of the right chamber, ##n_1## is the total number of moles of gas 1, ##n_{1rf}## is the final number of moles of gas 1 remaining in the right chamber at equilibrium. (I'm assuming that gas 1 starts on the right side and gas 2 on the left side)
Very nice.
 
Have you been able to complete the solution now? If not, I can help further.
 
Chestermiller said:
Have you been able to complete the solution now? If not, I can help further.
I've completed the solution to this problem, but would like to compare notes. Any chance? What about someone else besides the OP?
 

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