Unconstant permitivity between two charges

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Discussion Overview

The discussion revolves around the concept of varying permittivity in the context of electric forces between two charges. Participants explore how the dielectric constant influences calculations when it changes over the volume between the charges, particularly in scenarios involving different materials, such as plastic and water.

Discussion Character

  • Technical explanation
  • Conceptual clarification
  • Debate/contested

Main Points Raised

  • One participant questions whether the dielectric constant used in force equations is simply an average between two charges, suggesting that field lines may be "lost" in intervening materials.
  • Another participant proposes that varying permeability can be addressed through integration, indicating that boundary conditions must be considered where different media meet.
  • A participant expresses confusion about the application of integrals in this context, questioning how a constant permeability would affect the integration process.
  • In a later reply, a participant elaborates on the complexity of calculating electric fields in media with changing dielectric constants, noting that dipoles induced in insulators can affect field lines and suggesting that the average dielectric constant is not sufficient for accurate calculations.
  • This participant also discusses the behavior of electric displacement and its relationship with electric field intensity at the boundaries of different dielectrics.

Areas of Agreement / Disagreement

Participants express differing views on how to approach the calculation of electric fields in the presence of varying dielectric constants. There is no consensus on the best method or the implications of the dielectric constant's variability.

Contextual Notes

The discussion highlights the complexity of the problem, including the need for integration and consideration of boundary conditions, but does not resolve the mathematical steps or assumptions involved.

brandon.irwin
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Unconstant permittivity between two charges

Is the dielectric constant used in the force equations for two charges an average of the dielectric constant between the charges?

What dielectric constant would be used in the equations if the dielectric constant changes over the volume between the charges?

For instance, what if an infinite sheet of plastic with some thickness (less than the distance between the charges) was placed between two charges in an infinite volume of water?

I doubt it's simply the average over the distance because I would think some field lines would be "lost" in the plastic.
 
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You can cast the basic equation with a Permeability which varies with position. Then given a function which gives the value at each position you can use integration to get the final result. If there is a well defined boundary you can break the problem into pieces over each region. You will need to match boundary values where the medias meet.
 
hrmm...I don't I understand how the integral would be applied :-\

For a constant permeability, wouldn't the integral go to infinity since each step would be a constant value? Otherwise, wouldn't it just be taking the average over a distance?

I don't think I get it :redface:
 
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bump :bugeye:
 
brandon.irwin said:
Is the dielectric constant used in the force equations for two charges an average of the dielectric constant between the charges?

What dielectric constant would be used in the equations if the dielectric constant changes over the volume between the charges?

For instance, what if an infinite sheet of plastic with some thickness (less than the distance between the charges) was placed between two charges in an infinite volume of water?

I doubt it's simply the average over the distance because I would think some field lines would be "lost" in the plastic.

You are right, it will not be the average. The problem of calculating the electric field around point charges in media with changing dielectric constant is very complicated except for some very symmetrical problems. You know, the electric field induces dipoles in the insulators, they arrange themselves into dipole chains, and some of the electric field lines "are lost" in this way. On the other hand, the terminals of the dipole chains at the surface of the dielectric body behave as surface charges. The field of these charges contributes to the field of the free charges outside the insulator. You certainly know that in the presence of dielectric bodies you have the vector of electric displacement D whose divergence is equal to the density of free charges. The relation between the electric field intensity E and the vector of electric displacement D is \B{D} =\epsilon\B{E}, ([\epsilon is called the dielectric constant or the permittivity of the medium.) At the boundary between two different dielectrics the normal component of the electric displacement is the same at both sides of the boundary, and so are the tangential components of the electric field. It is the number of lines of the electric displacement which are not "lost" at the boundary, but they change direction like the light beam at refraction across the boundary between two media.

ehild
 

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