Understanding Derivatives and Integrals: A Basic Guide for Beginners

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    Derivatives Integrals
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Discussion Overview

The discussion revolves around the understanding of derivatives and integrals, specifically focusing on the function f(x) = (3x^3 + 8x^2 + 7x + 12) / (4x^2 - 12x - 15). Participants explore the definitions and calculations of derivatives and integrals, while expressing uncertainty about their understanding and correctness.

Discussion Character

  • Exploratory
  • Technical explanation
  • Debate/contested

Main Points Raised

  • One participant presents a limit definition of the derivative and attempts to express the integral in terms of the original function, but expresses doubt about their correctness.
  • Another participant challenges the first by stating that the derivative of a quotient is not simply the derivatives of the numerator and denominator divided, but rather follows the quotient rule.
  • A third participant reiterates the incorrectness of integrating the numerator and denominator separately, emphasizing the need for proper methods in both differentiation and integration.
  • A fourth participant provides an example of finding a derivative using the limit definition, demonstrating the process with a specific function.

Areas of Agreement / Disagreement

Participants express disagreement regarding the correct application of derivative and integral rules. There is no consensus on the correctness of the initial claims, and multiple viewpoints on the proper methods remain present.

Contextual Notes

Participants highlight limitations in understanding the rules of differentiation and integration, with some steps and assumptions remaining unresolved. The discussion reflects varying levels of familiarity with calculus concepts.

Mol_Bolom
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I just want to see if I got this correct. From what all I've read it seems that I have most of it understood, but eh, I don't trust my judgement...

Lets say we have [tex]f(x) = {{3x^3 + 8x^2 + 7x + 12} \over {4x^2 - 12x - 15}}[/tex]

And the derivative...

[tex] {d \over dx} f(x) = \lim _{h \rightarrow 0} {{f(x+h) - f(x)} \over h} =<br /> {{<br /> {d \over dx} (3x^3 + 8x^2 + 7x + 12)<br /> }<br /> \over<br /> {<br /> {d \over dx} (4x^2 - 12x - 15)<br /> }} = f'(x)[/tex]

Thus the integral would be...

[tex] \int {f'(x)} \textbf{ }dx = f(x)[/tex]

And if the constants are unknown, thus letting a and b represent the constants...

[tex] \int {f'(x)} \text{ } dx = {{3x^3 + 8x^2 + 7x + a} \over {4x^2 - 12x + b}}[/tex]
 
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Mol_Bolom said:
I just want to see if I got this correct. From what all I've read it seems that I have most of it understood, but eh, I don't trust my judgement...

Lets say we have [tex]f(x) = {{3x^3 + 8x^2 + 7x + 12} \over {4x^2 - 12x - 15}}[/tex]

And the derivative...

[tex] {d \over dx} f(x) = \lim _{h \rightarrow 0} {{f(x+h) - f(x)} \over h} =<br /> {{<br /> {d \over dx} (3x^3 + 8x^2 + 7x + 12)<br /> }<br /> \over<br /> {<br /> {d \over dx} (4x^2 - 12x - 15)<br /> }} = f'(x)[/tex]

Thus the integral would be...

[tex] \int {f'(x)} \textbf{ }dx = f(x)[/tex]

And if the constants are unknown, thus letting a and b represent the constants...

[tex] \int {f'(x)} \text{ } dx = {{3x^3 + 8x^2 + 7x + a} \over {4x^2 - 12x + b}}[/tex]
I'm afraid that what you have written isn't correct. You might want to have a read of these tutorials for https://www.physicsforums.com/showthread.php?t=139690".
 
Last edited by a moderator:
Mol_Bolom said:
I just want to see if I got this correct. From what all I've read it seems that I have most of it understood, but eh, I don't trust my judgement...

Lets say we have [tex]f(x) = {{3x^3 + 8x^2 + 7x + 12} \over {4x^2 - 12x - 15}}[/tex]

And the derivative...

[tex] {d \over dx} f(x) = \lim _{h \rightarrow 0} {{f(x+h) - f(x)} \over h} =<br /> {{<br /> {d \over dx} (3x^3 + 8x^2 + 7x + 12)<br /> }<br /> \over<br /> {<br /> {d \over dx} (4x^2 - 12x - 15)<br /> }} = f'(x)[/tex]
No. the derivative of f(x)/g(x) is (f'(x)g(x)- f(x)g'(x))/g2(x), not f'/g'.

Thus the integral would be...

[tex] \int {f'(x)} \textbf{ }dx = f(x)[/tex]

And if the constants are unknown, thus letting a and b represent the constants...

[tex] \int {f'(x)} \text{ } dx = {{3x^3 + 8x^2 + 7x + a} \over {4x^2 - 12x + b}}[/tex]
Nor can you integrate f/g by integrating numerator and denominator separately.
 
Hi Mol_Bolom
when you find the derivative by definition
(d/dx)(f(x)=lim(f(x+h)-f(x))/h you can find the limit of d/dh(f(x+h)-f(x))
h__ 0 ---------------
d/dh(h)
for example if F(x)=x^2 you have

d/dx(F(x))=lim ((x+h)^2-x^2)/h =
h___0
=lim [2(x+h)-0]/1 by diff. both num. and denum. w.r.t h and take the limit as h
h___0
approaches 0 you get
d/dx(F(x))=2x
Best wishes
Riad Zaidan
 

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