Understanding Destructive Interference in Radio Waves

AI Thread Summary
The discussion centers on the concept of destructive interference in radio waves, specifically regarding a ship emitting waves from two sources, one above and one below water. The underwater source is out of phase by half a wavelength due to reflection at the water's surface. The path difference is crucial, as it contributes to the overall phase shift; if the total phase shift is 1.5 wavelengths, destructive interference occurs, leading to a loss of radio contact. The confusion arises from understanding how the phase shift from reflection and path difference interact. Ultimately, the discussion clarifies that the loss of contact is due to destructive interference, where the waves effectively cancel each other out.
jolly_math
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Homework Statement
A ship approaching harbor is transmitting at a wavelength of λ = 3.43 m from its antenna located h = 23 m above sea level. The receiving station antenna is located H = 160 m above sea level. What is the horizontal distance D between ship and receiving tower when radio contact is momentarily lost for the first time? Assume that the calm ocean reflects radio waves perfectly according to the law of reflection. (diagram below)
Relevant Equations
d sin θ = (m + 1/2) λ
1669347268103.png

The solution pretends that the ship is a two point source emitter, one h above the water, and one h below the water.
The one below the water is out of phase by half a wavelength.

I don't understand why then d sin θ = λ - wouldn't it be d sin θ = (1/2)λ since it is out of phase?

Thank you.
 
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jolly_math said:
I don't understand why then d sin θ = λ - wouldn't it be d sin θ = (1/2)λ since it is out of phase?
The two point sources emit out of phase. That is, the waves start out from the two sources already with a (1/2)λ phase shift. The path difference (d sin θ) contributes additional phase shift where the waves arrive at the receiving station. If the path difference is (1/2)λ, what would be the total phase shift? Would that yield constructive or destructive interference?
 
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TSny said:
The two point sources emit out of phase. That is, the waves start out from the two sources already with a (1/2)λ phase shift. The path difference (d sin θ) contributes additional phase shift where the waves arrive at the receiving station. If the path difference is (1/2)λ, what would be the total phase shift? Would that yield constructive or destructive interference?
I'm confused by how "the one below the water is out of phase by half a wavelength" is derived from the question. Also, why is the path difference (1/2)λ?

When the question states that "radio contact is momentarily lost for the first time", is it looking for constructive or destructive interference?

Thank you.
 
jolly_math said:
I'm confused by how "the one below the water is out of phase by half a wavelength" is derived from the question.
The underlying reason is that, when a radio wave reflects off of the surface of water, the radio wave undergoes a (1/2)λ phase shift. This is taken into account by taking the "phantom" underwater point source to be emitting waves that are (1/2)λ out of phase with the above water point source.

Did you discuss phase shifts due to reflection in class? There is a rule for deciding whether or not a light wave has a (1/2)λ phase shift due to reflection. It involves the indices of refraction of the two media where the reflection takes place. The same rule applies to radio waves.

[EDIT: In introductory physics courses, it is often stated that there will be a (1/2)λ phase shift at reflection if the ratio of the indices of refraction ##n_2/n_1## is greater than 1. Actually, there are exceptions to this that depend on the angle of incidence and the polarization of the waves. But, this is not usually covered in introductory classes. So, I guess that in this question you were just expected to assume that there will be a (1/2)λ phase shift due to reflection since ##n_2/n_1## is greater than 1 for an air-to-water interface.]

jolly_math said:
Also, why is the path difference (1/2)λ?
In the first post you asked, "I don't understand why then d sin θ = λ - wouldn't it be d sin θ = (1/2)λ since it is out of phase?"

I wanted you to see that if you take the path difference to be (1/2)λ, then the waves at the receiving station would not result in the receiving station losing contact with the ship. So, (1/2)λ path difference is not going to work.

jolly_math said:
When the question states that "radio contact is momentarily lost for the first time", is it looking for constructive or destructive interference?
The contact is lost because the waves from the two point sources "cancel out" at the receiving station. Would this be constructive or destructive interference?
 
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TSny said:
The contact is lost because the waves from the two point sources "cancel out" at the receiving station. Would this be constructive or destructive interference?
This would be destructive interference. d sin θ = λ so that the overall phase difference is 1.5λ, which still ensures destructive interference - is this right?
 
jolly_math said:
This would be destructive interference. d sin θ = λ so that the overall phase difference is 1.5λ, which still ensures destructive interference - is this right?
Yes. Good.
 
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