Understanding Energy and Magnetism: Debunking Common Misconceptions

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Discussion Overview

The discussion revolves around the concepts of energy, work, and potential energy in the context of magnetic interactions between two magnets. Participants explore the implications of exerting forces on the magnets and the resulting energy changes, focusing on the conservation of energy principle.

Discussion Character

  • Exploratory, Technical explanation, Conceptual clarification, Debate/contested

Main Points Raised

  • One participant describes a scenario where they pull two magnets apart, asserting that they have done positive work and increased the potential energy of the arrangement, but questions the conservation of energy in this context.
  • Another participant counters that the magnets have not lost energy, suggesting that the work done by the participant is stored as energy in the magnetic field between the magnets.
  • A third participant challenges the initial interpretation, stating that the magnets gain potential energy rather than losing energy, emphasizing that the perceived loss is actually a gain in potential energy due to the magnetic field.

Areas of Agreement / Disagreement

Participants express differing views on the nature of energy changes in the system, with some asserting that energy is lost while others argue it is gained as potential energy. The discussion remains unresolved regarding the interpretation of energy conservation in this scenario.

Contextual Notes

There are assumptions about the nature of work done on the magnets and the definitions of potential and kinetic energy that remain unexamined. The discussion does not resolve the mathematical implications of energy conservation in this context.

HummusAkemi
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I pry two magnets apart. The magnets attract each other. Say they exert a constant force F on each other. I exert an equivalent force F on each in the opposite direction and pull them apart a distance d (pull each of them d/2 distance). So I have done positive work Fd in total and increased the potential energy of the arrangement by Fd. The magnets have each done negative work -Fd/2 on each other.
Me: lost Fd energy
Left magnet: lost Fd/2 energy from work done on other magnet
Right magnet: lost Fd/2 energy from work done on other magnet
The potential energy of the arrangement rose by Fd.

Anyone tell me where I messed up? Because conservation of energy doesn't work out.
 
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The magnets have not lost any energy - you have done work storing energy in the magnetic field between the magnets.
The amount of energy stored is the same as the work you did.
 
Τhe middle statements about the left and right magnet are wrong. The left magnet doesn't lose Fd/2 energy instead it gains Fd/2 potential energy. Similar right magnet gains Fd/2 potential energy. It is a gain in potential energy rather than a gain in kinetic energy that we would have if there was no magnetic field. You view that "possible" gain in kinetic energy as a loss which isn't really an energy loss, it is a gain in potential energy instead.
 
Thanks, you two. Ok, I think I get it now
 

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