Understanding MMF in Transformer

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Discussion Overview

The discussion centers around the concept of magnetomotive force (MMF) in transformers, particularly in the context of ideal versus practical transformers. Participants explore the relationship between primary and secondary currents, magnetizing current, and the implications for magnetic flux in the transformer core.

Discussion Character

  • Technical explanation
  • Debate/contested
  • Conceptual clarification

Main Points Raised

  • One participant notes that in an ideal transformer, the primary current consists of magnetization current and the current that transfers energy to the secondary, questioning the implications of equal ampere-turns in primary and secondary coils on magnetic flux.
  • Another participant argues that the equation i1N1 = i2N2 is based on an ideal transformer model and suggests a more accurate representation includes magnetizing current, stating that the flux is not canceled but balanced to remain constant under load.
  • A follow-up question seeks clarification on whether the magnetizing current is small compared to total current, and whether the flux is solely determined by primary voltage, independent of secondary current.
  • In response, it is stated that while the magnetizing current is small, it is not negligible, and that the primary current is influenced by secondary current, with practical implications for voltage drop and back-emf in the primary circuit.

Areas of Agreement / Disagreement

Participants express differing views on the nature of flux in transformers, particularly regarding the ideal versus practical scenarios. There is no consensus on whether the magnetizing current can be considered very small or how it interacts with the total current in practical applications.

Contextual Notes

Participants discuss the implications of ideal transformer assumptions versus real-world conditions, including the effects of impedance and voltage drop in the primary winding, which may not be fully resolved in the discussion.

kelvin490
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I am studying about transformer and get confused about some concept. I have learn that in an ideal simple transformer the primary has two components of current:
  • Magnetization current i.e. the open-secondary primary current.
  • Current that (ignoring small leakage inductances) finds it way (via the turns ratio) to the secondary.
The flux in iron core is determined by primary voltage and cannot be affected by secondary coil in a transformer and this is due to the load's ampere-turns in the primary exactly cancelling the secondary ampere-turns. In textbooks that i1N1 = i2N2 since the counter mmf is opposing the mmf of the primary coil.

I just wonder if they are exactly the same does it implies that flux will be canceled out? I know flux should not canceled out but the two mmfs are the same this make me confused.
 
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kelvin490 said:
In textbooks that i1N1 = i2N2
Well, that's because your textbooks imagine some ideal transformer, that does not need any flux at all.

i1*N1 = i2*N2

i1 = i2 * N2 / N1 (which is not correct)

instead

I1 = i2 * N2 / N1 + i1m ( which is more correct )

Say that I2 = 0, then i1 = im1 ( im1 is the magnitizing current ).

The flux is not canceled, it's just balancing, so that the flux will be kept constant at any load ( by an ideal transformer ).
 
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Hesch said:
Well, that's because your textbooks imagine some ideal transformer, that does not need any flux at all.

i1*N1 = i2*N2

i1 = i2 * N2 / N1 (which is not correct)

instead

I1 = i2 * N2 / N1 + i1m ( which is more correct )

Say that I2 = 0, then i1 = im1 ( im1 is the magnitizing current ).

The flux is not canceled, it's just balancing, so that the flux will be kept constant at any load ( by an ideal transformer ).
Thanks a lot. I would also like to ask is that in practical situation magnetizing current is very small compared to the total current? In addition, you said "the flux will be kept constant at any load" do you actually mean the flux is only determined by primary voltage (which is varying) and is not affected by secondary current?
 
kelvin490 said:
magnetizing current is very small compared to the total current?
It is "small", but not "very small".

kelvin490 said:
do you actually mean the flux is only determined by primary voltage (which is varying) and is not affected by secondary current?
I1 is a function of I2:

I1 = i2 * N2 / N1 + i1m.

In practice L1 has an impedance ( Z1 ), so higher current in L1 will lead to a higher voltage drop ( V1 ) in L1. Now, if I1 is increased ( due to I2 ) , V1 will be increased as well: V1 = I1 * Z1.

Now, call the back-emf in L1: E1 and the supply-voltage Vs: The current in L1 is driven by: I1 = ( Vs - E1 ) / Z1. So increasing I1, ( Vs - E1 ) must be increased, and as Vs is assumed constant, E1 must be decreased, thus the flux must be decreased: E1 = dψv/dt.
 

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