Understanding Products in the Equation v^2 = u^2 + 2aS

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Discussion Overview

The discussion revolves around the nature of products in the equation v^2 = u^2 + 2aS, specifically whether the terms v^2, u^2, and aS represent dot products or cross products. Participants explore the implications of these products in the context of physics, focusing on theoretical understanding rather than practical applications.

Discussion Character

  • Debate/contested
  • Conceptual clarification
  • Mathematical reasoning

Main Points Raised

  • Some participants propose that v^2 and u^2 are dot products, while aS should also be a dot product to maintain scalar consistency.
  • Others argue that a and S could be scalars, which would affect the nature of the product aS.
  • A participant suggests that it is important to prove the law anew rather than assume the types of products, indicating that none of the products might fit the expected definitions.
  • One participant provides a mathematical derivation involving force and acceleration, emphasizing that the assumptions of constant force and acceleration are crucial to the discussion.

Areas of Agreement / Disagreement

Participants do not reach a consensus on the nature of the products in the equation. Multiple competing views remain regarding whether the products are dot products or if they could be something else entirely.

Contextual Notes

The discussion assumes that force and acceleration are constant, which is a critical condition for the derivations presented. There is also uncertainty regarding the definitions of the products involved.

johncena
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In the equation v^2 = u^2 + 2aS , What kind of products are v^2 , u^2 , and aS ?
Cross product or dot product?
 
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Please correct me if i am wrong, but i believe they will be dot products, cross products will have a change in directions as well.
 
Definitely dot products.
When you cross a vector with itself, you get the zero vector, which is absolutely meaningless.
 
OK . So v^2 and u^2 are dot products ...but what about aS?
 
johncena said:
OK . So v^2 and u^2 are dot products ...but what about aS?
Going from just a shallow point of view (without analyzing the meaning of the equation whatsoever) it must be a dot product as well as v^2 and u^2 are both scalars, which necessarily requires the product aS to yield a scalar as well.
 
Unless of course a and S are already scalars.
 
I think it is important to not just guess what the products might be, but rather prove the law anew. It might be none of the products. So let's do that
\Delta E_\text{kin}=\int\vec{F}\cdot\mathrm{d}\vec{s}
\therefore m|v|^2-m|u|^2=2\vec{F}\cdot\Delta\vec{s}
if the force is a constant
\therefore |v|^2=|u|^2+2\vec{a}\cdot\Delta\vec{s}
or if you wish
\therefore \vec{v}\cdot\vec{v}=\vec{v}_0\cdot\vec{v}_0+2\vec{a}\cdot(\vec{s}-\vec{s}_0)

Note that all this assumes that the force/acceleration is constant.
 
Gerenuk said:
Note that all this assumes that the force/acceleration is constant.
[nitpick]

Just to clarify, Gerenuk means that force and acceleration are both constant.

\frac{force}{acceleration}[/itex] is the same as the mass, which is always constant (at nonrelativistic speeds)<br /> <br /> <img src="https://cdn.jsdelivr.net/joypixels/assets/8.0/png/unicode/64/1f642.png" class="smilie smilie--emoji" loading="lazy" width="64" height="64" alt=":smile:" title="Smile :smile:" data-smilie="1"data-shortname=":smile:" /><br /> [/nitpick]
 

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