Understanding Spin and Quantum States: Insights from 'The Theoretical Minimum

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Discussion Overview

The discussion revolves around the concepts of spin and quantum states as presented in the book "The Theoretical Minimum." Participants explore the representation of spin states in vector spaces, specifically focusing on spin-1/2 systems, and the implications of measuring spin along different axes, including left-right and up-down orientations.

Discussion Character

  • Exploratory
  • Technical explanation
  • Conceptual clarification
  • Debate/contested

Main Points Raised

  • One participant seeks clarification on the meaning of representing all possible spin states in a two-dimensional vector space.
  • Another participant explains that for a spin-1/2 system, states can be expressed as superpositions of spin-up and spin-down states, forming a two-dimensional vector space.
  • There is a reference to a specific section in the book that elaborates on the topic.
  • Concerns are raised about how to represent left and right spin states using only up and down states.
  • One participant describes left and right spin states as results of measuring spin aligned along the x-axis, providing mathematical representations for these states.
  • Participants discuss the Stern-Gerlach experiment and the challenges of measuring spin along the x-axis, questioning how to orient magnets without blocking the beam.
  • Another participant draws an analogy between representing spin states and compass directions, emphasizing the orthogonality of spin-up and spin-down states.
  • There is a suggestion that a magnet coil oriented along the beam propagation direction could facilitate three-axis measurements.

Areas of Agreement / Disagreement

Participants express uncertainty regarding the measurement of spin along different axes, particularly the x-axis, and there is no consensus on the best approach to orienting magnets for such measurements. The discussion includes multiple competing views on representing spin states and the implications of their orientations.

Contextual Notes

Some participants note limitations in understanding how left-right spin states can be derived from up and down states, and there are unresolved questions about the practical setup for measuring spin in the x-direction.

Quarlep
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I am reading a book The Theoretical Minimum I didnt understand spin and quantum states
"All possible spin states can be represented in a two dimensional vector space."
What it means ?
 
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Are you talking about a spin-1/2 system? Because if so, it means that all possible spin states for this system can be written in the form: ##|\chi_{1/2}\rangle=\alpha|+1/2\rangle+\beta|-1/2\rangle##, where ##\alpha## and ##\beta## are complex numbers. In other words, every possible spin configuration is given by a suitable superposition of a state with spin up and a state with spin down, i.e. it forms a two-dimensional vector space. If you want, you can identify the two basis vectors with the usual versors: ##|1/2\rangle=(1, 0)## and ##|-1/2\rangle=(0, 1)##, so a generic state will be of the kind ##\vec{\chi}_{1/2}=(\alpha, \beta)##.
 
If you have The theoretical Minimum book you can look it Lecture 2.2
 
If you read a few line below the vector space sentece the author says exactly what I wrote before.
 
I just dind understand how can we show left right spin states just use up and down states.
 
According to the book, left and right states are the results of the measure of the spin when the system is aligned along the x-axis. In a vector form you can write them as: ##\vec{l}=\frac{1}{\sqrt{2}}(1,1)## and ##\vec{r}=\frac{1}{\sqrt{2}}(1,-1)## (you can show this, for example, diagonalizing the first Pauli matrix). But you can always write:

\begin{align}
|l\rangle=&\frac{1}{\sqrt{2}}\left(|1/2\rangle+|-1/2\rangle\right) \\
|r\rangle=&\frac{1}{\sqrt{2}}\left(|1/2\rangle-|-1/2\rangle\right).
\end{align}

So, you can express the left/right states in terms of the up and down ones.
 
In thinking of the Stern Gerlach experiment, I understand how the magnets can be aligned along the z-axis, and along the y-axis (assuming y-axis is perpendicular to propagation)..but how do you orient the magnets in the x-direction (along the propagation) to measure spin x? Wouldn't that block the beam?
 
Quarlep said:
I just don't understand how can we show left right spin states just use up and down states.

It works the same way that we can describe any compass direction using just two directions. Say we're allowed to use just north and east and we represent them as the vectors ##\vec{N}## and ##\vec{E}##... Then south is ##-\vec{N}##, west is ##-\vec{E}##, northwest is ##\frac{\sqrt{2}}{2}(\vec{N}-\vec{E})## and so forth.

The confusing thing about doing this with spin is that the associated magnetic moments point in opposite spatial directions, so you are tempted to think that spin-down, ##|D\rangle##, is equal to ##-|U\rangle##, the negative of spin-up. But it's not; spin-up and spin-down are orthogonal vectors in the abstract vector space. The easiest way to see this is to look at the representation of these vectors as 1x2 matrices. You'll see that not only is ##|U\rangle=|\psi_{z+}\rangle## not the negative of ##|D\rangle=|\psi_{z-}\rangle## but also that their product is zero and their sum is equal to ##|\psi_{x+}\rangle## which is a left-right spin state.
 
luxor99 said:
In thinking of the Stern Gerlach experiment, I understand how the magnets can be aligned along the z-axis, and along the y-axis (assuming y-axis is perpendicular to propagation)..but how do you orient the magnets in the x-direction (along the propagation) to measure spin x? Wouldn't that block the beam?

A fairly common convention is that if you are standing at the source looking at the detector, the z-axis is up-down, the x-axis is left-right, and you need a slightly more ingenious setup if you're doing three-axis measurements.
 
  • #10
Nugatory said:
A fairly common convention is that if you are standing at the source looking at the detector, the z-axis is up-down, the x-axis is left-right, and you need a slightly more ingenious setup if you're doing three-axis measurements.

Probably using a magnet coil oriented along the beam propagation direction will help.
 

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