Understanding the Applicability of the Acoustics Wave Equation

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Discussion Overview

The discussion centers on the applicability of the acoustics wave equation, particularly in relation to varying sound pressure levels and the conditions under which the equation holds true. Participants explore the implications of linear versus nonlinear behavior in fluids, the nature of sound waves in different media, and the limitations imposed by assumptions such as adiabatic versus isothermal processes.

Discussion Character

  • Exploratory
  • Technical explanation
  • Conceptual clarification
  • Debate/contested

Main Points Raised

  • Hannah questions why the applicability of the acoustics wave equation varies with sound pressure levels, suggesting a lack of understanding of the underlying principles.
  • One participant explains that the acoustic equation describes small linearized perturbations, and that large amplitudes can lead to nonlinear fluid behavior, which may result in physically impossible scenarios.
  • Another participant notes that for higher pressure waves, one would derive an acoustics wave equation without small amplitude approximations, leading to different wave behaviors.
  • Discussion includes the distinction between adiabatic and isothermal processes in sound waves, with a reference to liquid nitrogen as an example of a medium where this distinction is relevant.
  • There is a suggestion that the adiabatic approximation (PV^{\gamma} = constant) may impose limitations on the pressures that can be described by the acoustic equation.
  • Further exploration of the implications of wave velocity dependence on amplitude and the potential for non-sinusoidal wave shapes is raised.
  • One participant introduces the idea that energy transfer rates could affect the applicability of the acoustic equation, particularly in extreme conditions like high temperatures or specific media.

Areas of Agreement / Disagreement

Participants express varying levels of understanding and agreement regarding the conditions under which the acoustics wave equation is applicable. There is no consensus on the implications of different pressure levels or the transition between adiabatic and isothermal processes, indicating ongoing debate and exploration of these concepts.

Contextual Notes

Participants highlight limitations related to assumptions about linearity and the nature of sound waves in different media. The discussion also touches on the potential for significant differences in behavior under specific conditions, such as high frequencies or supercritical temperatures.

Radiohannah
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Hello!

When considering the acoustics wave equation

[tex]\frac{\partial^{2}P}{\partial t^{2}} = c^{2} \nabla^{2} P[/tex]

I don't really understand why you can say that the applicability of this equation varies for different sound pressure levels. I don't see why this shouldn't hold for all pressures? Am I missing the point somewhere?


:-)

Hannah
 
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The acoustic equation describes small linearised perturbations about the steady state of the fluid.

For large amplitudes of pressure and velocity the fluid behaviour is not linear. For example the velocity of the vibrating fluid as predicted by the acoustic equation might be greater than the speed of sound in the fluid. Or the pressure amplitude might be greater than the static pressure in the fluid, so the minimum pressure (according to the acoustic equation) would be negative. Both of those situations are physically impossible.
 
So when considering the higher pressure waves, you would derive an acoustics wave equation in which you didn't make small amplitude waves approximations? I get it now! Thank you :-)
 
Great, thanks! With that further approximation that the sound waves are adiabatic, PV^{\gamma} = constant, does that also then put limitations on the pressures that can be described by the acoustic equation?
 
Radiohannah said:
So when considering the higher pressure waves, you would derive an acoustics wave equation in which you didn't make small amplitude waves approximations?
That's right. For example you find that the wave velocity depends on the amplitude. There are also non-sinusoidal shapes of waves that can propagate.

Great, thanks! With that further approximation that the sound waves are adiabatic, PV^{\gamma} = constant, does that also then put limitations on the pressures that can be described by the acoustic equation?
The bottom line is "can the energy go anywhere fast enough to make a difference". For most applications of acoustics the answer is no, but obviously you could have a situation where would make a difference - for example if the temperature change was large enough that radiation heat transfer was important. Heat conduction in gases is usually very poor, and if it wasn't poor you wouldn't get adabatic behaviour.

There is usually no measurable difference between adiabatic and isothermal behaviour in liquids, because Cp/Cv is very close to 1. But what happens in liquid nitrogen at supercritical temperatures, and frequencies of the order of THz, may well be interesting if you want to make a "cloud chamber" type of detector for sub-atomic particles...
http://arxiv.org/PS_cache/cond-mat/pdf/0512/0512383v1.pdf
 
That's super, thank you!
 

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