Understanding the Big Union Notation: Simple Examples and Explanation

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Discussion Overview

The discussion revolves around understanding the big Union notation in discrete mathematics, particularly how it relates to index sets and the union of various sets. Participants seek clarification on the notation and its application through examples.

Discussion Character

  • Exploratory
  • Technical explanation
  • Conceptual clarification

Main Points Raised

  • One participant expresses confusion regarding the big Union notation and the role of the index sets, specifically questioning the introduction of sets A_i without prior definition.
  • Another participant explains that index sets are common in mathematics and that the notation refers to the union of sets indexed by i in a set I.
  • A participant provides an example with specific sets (Q, W, E, R) and attempts to apply the Union formula, expressing that it does not make sense without defining A_i.
  • Further clarification is offered that the sets A_i must be defined before applying the Union operation, emphasizing the need for clarity in notation.
  • Another participant suggests that the sets can be defined in various ways, including using the original sets (Q, W, E, R) directly in the Union notation.

Areas of Agreement / Disagreement

Participants generally agree on the importance of defining the sets involved in the Union notation, but there remains some confusion about how to properly apply the notation with different sets and indices. The discussion does not reach a consensus on the best approach to clarify the notation.

Contextual Notes

Some participants express uncertainty about the definitions and relationships between the sets involved in the Union notation, indicating that further clarification may be needed regarding the use of indices and set definitions.

Pithikos
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In my discrete math book there is half a page with very formal explanation of the big Union notation and two very short examples without guidance so I have a hard time understanding what goes on. Here's a http://img525.imageshack.us/img525/8507/unionl.jpg" .

I know the Summation formula and I could understand this Union formula if it didn't have that Ai that came from nowhere. Could someone please give a simple example on this one?
 
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This is a general definition of what we refer to as index sets. Indexes appear in all branches of mathematics, and you've undoubtedly seen them before. Many times where you see a "subscript", that's usually an indication that something is being indexed by the subscript.

The case here is not much different. The first definition (3.10) is read as "...the set A_{i} indexed by i\in{I}." The union and intersections shown there are just the union -- or intersection -- of such A_{i}.
 
discrete* said:
This is a general definition of what we refer to as index sets. Indexes appear in all branches of mathematics, and you've undoubtedly seen them before. Many times where you see a "subscript", that's usually an indication that something is being indexed by the subscript.

The case here is not much different. The first definition (3.10) is read as "...the set A_{i} indexed by i\in{I}." The union and intersections shown there are just the union -- or intersection -- of such A_{i}.

I understand the index part. I just can't understand what that has to do with the union of some elements.

For example say that set I is {1,2,3,4}. Then I have Q={1, 3}, W={5, 7}, E={100,101}, R={5, 10} and I want to unite those together. If I apply the formula I would get:

\bigcup^{}_{i \in I}Ai=A1\cupA2\cupA3\cupA4

Which doesn't make sense to me as A1, A2.. are not defined anywhere. With my thinking this would work only if instead of Q, W, E and R, I used A1, A2, A3 and A4 when naming my sets.
 
Pithikos said:
I understand the index part. I just can't understand what that has to do with the union of some elements.

For example say that set I is {1,2,3,4}. Then I have Q={1, 3}, W={5, 7}, E={100,101}, R={5, 10} and I want to unite those together. If I apply the formula I would get:

\bigcup^{}_{i \in I}Ai=A1\cupA2\cupA3\cupA4

Which doesn't make sense to me as A1, A2.. are not defined anywhere. With my thinking this would work only if instead of Q, W, E and R, I used A1, A2, A3 and A4 when naming my sets.

You lost me. Why is A1, A2 not defined? And where/why are the other sets coming into play?
 
Yes, it is implicit that the set \{A_i\}_{i \in I}, which is the set of A_i for any i in I must be defined before you take the union of them \bigcup_{i \in I}A_i.
 
Pithikos said:
I understand the index part. I just can't understand what that has to do with the union of some elements.

For example say that set I is {1,2,3,4}. Then I have Q={1, 3}, W={5, 7}, E={100,101}, R={5, 10} and I want to unite those together. If I apply the formula I would get:

\bigcup^{}_{i \in I}Ai=A1\cupA2\cupA3\cupA4
This formula is the union of the Ai's. If the Ai's aren't the sets you want to union, then this formula won't compute their union. :-p

With my thinking this would work only if instead of Q, W, E and R, I used A1, A2, A3 and A4 when naming my sets.
Why "instead of"? You get to choose what I and what the Ai's are.

Incidentally, you could have instead used I = {Q,W,E,R} and set Ai=i. Or, you could forgo temporary variables entirely and write:
\bigcup_{x\in \{Q,W,E,R\}} x​
 
Ok thanks! I got it :biggrin:
 

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