Understanding the Determinant of Commutator Matrices in Angular Momentum Systems

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Discussion Overview

The discussion centers around the properties of determinants in the context of angular momentum matrices and their commutation relations. Participants explore the implications of the anti-commutation relation for angular momentum operators and the validity of certain determinant equations derived from it.

Discussion Character

  • Technical explanation
  • Debate/contested
  • Mathematical reasoning

Main Points Raised

  • One participant states that the angular momentum matrices anti-commute as $[J_x, J_y] = iJ_z$ and derives a relation involving determinants, expressing confusion about the validity of their steps.
  • Another participant points out that $\text{det}(iJ_z) \neq i \, \text{det}(J_z)$, but rather $\text{det}(iJ_z) = i^n \, \text{det}(J_z)$, where $n$ is the size of the matrix.
  • A later reply suggests that the transition from the determinant of the commutator to the difference of the products is invalid, specifically stating that $\text{det}(AB - BA) \neq \text{det}(AB) - \text{det}(BA)$.

Areas of Agreement / Disagreement

Participants express differing views on the validity of certain mathematical steps related to determinants and commutators. No consensus is reached on the correctness of the initial derivation or the implications of the determinant properties.

Contextual Notes

There are limitations in the assumptions made regarding the properties of determinants and the specific conditions under which the derived equations hold. The discussion does not resolve these mathematical uncertainties.

ognik
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Hi, I've just wierded myself out so time to stop for today, but afore I go ...

Angular momentum matrices (also Pauli) anti-commute as $ [J_x, J_y] = iJ_z $

So $ Det\left( [J_x, J_y] \right) = i Det(J_z) $
$\therefore Det(J_xJ_y)-Det(J_yJ_x) = i Det(J_z) $
$\therefore Det(J_x)Det(J_y)-Det(J_y)Det(J_x) = i Det(J_z) $

I think you can see why I am confused here, usual question (sigh) what have I done wrong please?
 
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ognik said:
Hi, I've just wierded myself out so time to stop for today, but afore I go ...

Angular momentum matrices (also Pauli) anti-commute as $ [J_x, J_y] = iJ_z $

So $ Det\left( [J_x, J_y] \right) = i Det(J_z) $
$\therefore Det(J_xJ_y)-Det(J_yJ_x) = i Det(J_z) $
$\therefore Det(J_x)Det(J_y)-Det(J_y)Det(J_x) = i Det(J_z) $

I think you can see why I am confused here, usual question (sigh) what have I done wrong please?
[math]|x + y| \neq |x| + |y| [/math]

-Dan
 
Also,
$$\text{det}(iJ_z)\not=i \, \text{det}(J_z),\qquad \text{but} \qquad \text{det}(iJ_z)=i^n \, \text{det}(J_z),$$
where $n\times n$ is the size of the $J_z$ matrix.
 
topsquark said:
[math]|x + y| \neq |x| + |y| [/math]

-Dan
Sorry, don't understand, how does relate to commutator? Ta
 
ognik said:
Sorry, don't understand, how does relate to commutator? Ta

I could be wrong, but I think topsquark is saying that going from the first to the second line is invalid. That is,
$$\text{det}(AB-BA) \not= \text{det}(AB) - \text{det}(BA).$$
 
Sometimes I can't see the wood for the trees, thanks guys.
 

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