Understanding the Einstein Equivalence Principle

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Discussion Overview

The discussion centers on the Einstein equivalence principle (EEP), exploring its implications, definitions, and nuances within the context of general relativity (GR). Participants examine the principle's application to non-gravitational experiments and the distinctions between EEP and the strong equivalence principle (SEP).

Discussion Character

  • Exploratory
  • Technical explanation
  • Conceptual clarification
  • Debate/contested

Main Points Raised

  • One participant asserts that the EEP implies all forms of non-gravitational energy fall at the same rate in a gravitational field and that non-gravitational laws of physics hold locally as they do in special relativity.
  • Another participant challenges the completeness of this statement, suggesting that the local position invariance aspect of EEP is broader than just free fall frames, referencing a specific source for clarification.
  • A participant expresses confusion about the term "non-gravitational experiment in a freely falling" and questions the definition of free-fall in relation to gravity.
  • In response, it is noted that while free-fall is gravitational in Newtonian physics, in GR it allows for certain experiments to be considered non-gravitational, with a distinction made regarding Cavendish-type experiments.
  • Further clarification is sought on the strong equivalence principle, particularly regarding how gravitational energy behaves in relation to other forms of energy in an external gravitational field.

Areas of Agreement / Disagreement

Participants express differing interpretations of the EEP and its implications, indicating that multiple competing views remain. The discussion does not reach a consensus on the definitions and applications of the principles involved.

Contextual Notes

Some participants highlight limitations in understanding the definitions and implications of the EEP and SEP, particularly regarding the scope of non-gravitational experiments and the conditions under which they apply.

Frank Castle
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The Einstein equivalence principle (EEP) states that

“The outcome of any local non-gravitational experiment in a freely falling laboratory is independent of the velocity of the laboratory and its position in spacetime.”

I’m trying to make sure I’ve understood this correctly. I’m I correct to say that the EEP implies that all forms of non-gravitational energy fall at the same rate in a gravitational field and consequently that all non-gravitational laws of physics hold in the presence of a gravitational field, in particular, locally they take on the form they have in special relativity?
 
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That’s not really a complete statement of the EEP. Better is e.g. from page 9 of:

https://link.springer.com/content/pdf/10.12942/lrr-2014-4.pdf

What you say in explanation is certainly true, as far as it goes. Note that the local position invariance aspect of EEP is not limited to free fall frames, and is what says a Pound Rebka type experiment yields the same result, locally, on the surface of the Earth or an accelerating rocket.
 
I hate to be a bother here but I'm not understanding "non-gravitational experiment in a freely falling". Isn't "free-falling" by definition gravitational?
 
itfitmewelltoo said:
I hate to be a bother here but I'm not understanding "non-gravitational experiment in a freely falling". Isn't "free-falling" by definition gravitational?
In Newtonian physics it is, but not in GR. The sense of the statement is that a Cavendish type of experiment (measuring attraction of two balls) is excludeded. The SEP (strong equivalence principle ) generalizes to allow such gravitational experiments, and it is hypothesized but not proven that GR is the only metric theory that observes the SEP.
 
PAllen said:
That’s not really a complete statement of the EEP. Better is e.g. from page 9 of:

https://link.springer.com/content/pdf/10.12942/lrr-2014-4.pdf

Thanks for the link.

PAllen said:
Note that the local position invariance aspect of EEP is not limited to free fall frames, and is what says a Pound Rebka type experiment yields the same result, locally, on the surface of the Earth or an accelerating rocket.

So is this the statement that the (non-gravitational) laws of physics are valid locally in all frames of reference, and in particular, for a sufficiently small neighbourhood around each spacetime point they reduce to their special relativistic form?

In the strong form of the equivalence principle this is extended to gravitational experiments, what exactly is meant by this? I get that it requires that gravitational energy should fall at the same rate as all other forms of energy in an external gravitational field, such that objects whose total mass has a significant contribution from its gravitational binding energy behave identically to other objects (with negligible gravitational binding energy with respect to their total mass) in an external gravitational field.
 
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