Understanding the Evacuation of Gaza Strip: An In-Depth Discussion

[The Smoking Man]

They gave back Gaza Strip back to Palestinians for now, but under any silly pretext Israeli army can occupied it again.

Hence the sudden appearence of a 'tent city' filled with radicals.

 

[Art]

It does seem ironic given the current controversy over terrorism that Menachem Begin (who later became Prime Minister of Israel) waged a guerilla war against the British who declared him a terrorist and a murderer. And Ariel Sharon the current holder of that position whilst in his earlier post as defence minister orchestrated the massacre of women and children in the Sabra and Shatila massacre (note: He was found culpable by an Israeli inquiry - the Kahan commission - of being personally responsible for the attrocities and was sacked by the 'terrorist' Menachem Begin)
It's surprising how little has changed over the years. Israel was founded on terrorism and to this day still effects it's policies using terrorism. And they're supposed to be the good guys?
As with the US the majority of Israelis want peace and security but have been tricked into believing the only way to get this is to suppress their enemies forcibally.
Based on Sharon's previous actions I for one would not trust him and as far as the so called pull out from the occupied territories goes what many people are confused by (including many of the settlers being evicted) is that whilst they are being moved out new settlers are moving in and setting up new settlements within a stone's throw of the evicted settlers' homes.

 

[The Smoking Man]

And they're supposed to be the good guys?

Well, they ARE supported by the USA.

Look at the USA's use of veto in the area:

http://www.krysstal.com/democracy_whyusa03.html
http://www.vialls.com/wecontrolamerica/WarCrimes.html

I suppose 'good guys' is a relative term and when you have 'relatives' in the USA there's no holding you back.:groan:

 

[Jimmy Snyder]

I am in favor of the withdrawal from Gaza. I suspect that Sharon thinks this withdrawal is a way of cementing the annexation of settlements in the West Bank. If so, I expect he will be disappointed and that Israel will eventually withdraw from there as well. I look forward to the creation of a Palestinian state in these lands that were taken from Egypt and Jordan.

I have no illusions about this leading to the end of terrorism. The Israelis will never give up any of Jerusalem, and the Palestinians will never accept this fact. Even so, I think that the creation of a Palestinian state will improve the situations of all the people that live there.

 

[Smurf]

Hmm I think I should go ask "What is the abortion issue and why do people get so mad" and see if I can out-pace this thread.

No fair! You're starting off-topic we've only just gotten there!

 

[Curious6]

Art, your views are biased and reflect a palpable prejudice. Anyways, I'll take a closer look at the information you presented, which undoubtedly was magnified and tergiversed to fit your opinions. If anybody wants to hear a reasonable defence here, I would listen very carefully to Yonoz as he knows what he's talking about.

 

[Burnsys]

Art, your views are biased and reflect a palpable prejudice. Anyways, I'll take a closer look at the information you presented, which undoubtedly was magnified and tergiversed to fit your opinions. If anybody wants to hear a reasonable defence here, I would listen very carefully to Yonoz as he knows what he's talking about.

I don't think Yonoz opinion is bias free either, he was or he is working for the israeli defence army if i am not wrong.

 

[Art]

Art, your views are biased and reflect a palpable prejudice. Anyways, I'll take a closer look at the information you presented, which undoubtedly was magnified and tergiversed to fit your opinions. If anybody wants to hear a reasonable defence here, I would listen very carefully to Yonoz as he knows what he's talking about.

Biased? Please explain how? Perhaps you would have done better to take a closer look at the information I presented BEFORE criticising my post.

In fact I'll even help you

In Palestine in 1940, Begin was incensed by British attempts to restrict immigration and instigated the underground military campaign against the mandate power. The British offered a reward for his capture, but they never caught him.

Under Begin's command, the underground terrorist group Irgun carried out numerous acts of violence.

In 1946 Irgun blew up the King David Hotel in Jerusalem, killing 91 people. In 1948 it took part in the massacre of Arabs in the town of Deir Yassin - an incident that accelerated the Arab exodus from Palestine on the eve of the founding of Israel.

This is the type of activity which your hero Yonoz (whose totally inaccurate recount of the history of Israel you enthusiastically endorsed) euphemistically called civil disorder in his earlier post http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/events/israel_at_50/profiles/81305.stm

The Kahan Commission investigating these massacres recommended in early 1983 the removal of Sharon from his post as Defense Minister. In their recommendations and closing remarks, the commission stated:

We have found, as has been detailed in this report, that the Minister of Defense [Ariel Sharon] bears personal responsibility.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ariel_Sharon#Sabra_and_Shatila_massacre
If you read the Wikipedia article in full you will find Sharon has made a life's work of enacting terrorist attacks on Arabs going all the way back to 1953 with the Qibya massacre .

 

[Entropy]

I have a great solution to this problem! Evacuate everyone from the strip then tactically nuke every square inch of it so NO ONE can have it! It's fair because everyone loses!

 

[Art]

I have a great solution to this problem! Evacuate everyone from the strip then tactically nuke every square inch of it so NO ONE can have it! It's fair because everyone loses!

Unfortunately there are 1.4 million Palestinians who would then be homeless compared to less than 8000 jews. Maybe not so fair.

 

[Smurf]

I have a great solution to this problem! Evacuate everyone from the strip then tactically nuke every square inch of it so NO ONE can have it! It's fair because everyone loses!

You realize that nuclear fallout doesn't stay just in the blast radius? The radiation's not going to say "Okay, we're at the human-defined invisible line marking the border of the gaza strip... let's turn around now"
Come to think of it, the radiation's not going to say anything.

 

[Art]

Here's an excerpt from the BBC confirming my earlier statement that as some settlers are being moved from the West Bank they are being replaced by an even larger number of new settlers.

Two thousand housing units will soon be demolished in the Gaza settlements, but in the West Bank, Mr Sharon's government is planning to build another 6,000 units, further cementing Israel's grip on the bit of the occupied territories that really matters.

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/world/middle_east/4160702.stm

 

[Smurf]

So it's official. It's purely a strategic move.

 

[waht]

Here's an excerpt from the BBC confirming my earlier statement that as some settlers are being moved from the West Bank they are being replaced by an even larger number of new settlers.
http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/world/middle_east/4160702.stm

Thats typical of any jew. Give something back and take twice as much. The jews have done more harm to the world than any other race.

www.jewwatch.com

 

[edward]

Thats typical of any jew. Give something back and take twice as much. The jews have done more harm to the world than any other race.

www.jewwatch.com

That is just predjudice talking. Jews have done nothing that we have not allowed them to do. Jews are not a race.
Race is a genetic distinction, and refers to people with shared ancestry and shared genetic traits. Jews do not have any genetic distinction.

 

[EnumaElish]

Thats typical of any jew. Give something back and take twice as much. The jews have done more harm to the world than any other race.

It is wise to draw a distinction between jewishness and the state of Israel, not to mention the right-wing government of the state of Israel. There are honest, hard-working and compassionate jewish people everywhere and they don't deserve your simple-minded labels.

 

[Lisa!]

They shouldn't, and no one ever asked them to.

I quote from yourself:

My garndparents moved to Israel in the beginning of the 20th century bacause they realized Jews should have a homeland. This has nothing to do with religion. European Jews were persecuted at every stage of history, and so many tired to assimilate into their societies, living a secular life which imitated that of their neighbours'.

So you decide to move to Palestin because of what European did.

 

[The Smoking Man]

I quote from yourself:



So you decide to move to Palestin because of what European did.

That's okay ... He also made the statement that being a Jew has nothing to do with religion.

 

[Smurf]

That is just predjudice talking. Jews have done nothing that we have not allowed them to do. Jews are not a race.
Race is a genetic distinction, and refers to people with shared ancestry and shared genetic traits. Jews do not have any genetic distinction.

Have you seen his link? He's obviously aware he's has pejudice against jews. (despite the title page boldly attempting to claim they're not a hate sight).

 

[The Smoking Man]

Have you seen his link? He's obviously aware he's has pejudice against jews. (despite the title page boldly attempting to claim they're not a hate sight).

Huh?

I didn't follow the link however I do know Sammy Davis Jr. was a jew...

It is possible to convert to Judaism however he would have found it hard to convert to 'caucasianism' (unless Michael Jackson has the secret).

 

[Lisa!]

That's okay ... He also made the statement that being a Jew has nothing to do with religion.

Yeah, at first I thought there's a close relation btw Zionist and religion.

Of course I don't agree with him about all European. I think it was only about some countries. And I don't know how it all started. Hitler decided to kill Jewish and they move to other countries. And the interesting points is that mst of Jewish scientists( like Enstein,I' not sure but I think Fermi's wife was Jewish and he had to move to US because of her) moved to US and then they made Nuclear bomb and helped US to win the ww2.

 

[loseyourname]

And I don't know how it all started. Hitler decided to kill Jewish and they move to other countries. And the interesting points is that mst of Jewish scientists( like Enstein,I' not sure but I think Fermi's wife was Jewish and he had to move to US because of her) moved to US and then they made Nuclear bomb and helped US to win the ww2.

It started well before that. Ever seen The Merchant of Venice?

 

[Smurf]

Huh?

I didn't follow the link however I do know Sammy Davis Jr. was a jew...

You should, it's pathetic. Here it is again so you don't have to scroll up:
www.jewwatch.com

 

[The Smoking Man]

You should, it's pathetic. Here it is again so you don't have to scroll up:
www.jewwatch.com

Woah ... I stand corrected.

PLEASE SUPPORT OUR SCHOLARLY RESEARCH?

Who's doing the research? Mengele?

 

[Art]

It is wise to draw a distinction between jewishness and the state of Israel, not to mention the right-wing government of the state of Israel. There are honest, hard-working and compassionate jewish people everywhere and they don't deserve your simple-minded labels.

I fully agree, it is only the right-wing government of Israel that I object to. I have an abhorrance of all terrorism whether it is by a state or by a group such as Hamas and it is important to note that condemning one side's attrocites does not condone attrocities committed by the other side nor does the actions of a few merit hating all members of the racial / religious group they belong to.

 

[The Smoking Man]

I fully agree, it is only the right-wing government of Israel that I object to. I have an abhorrance of all terrorism whether it is by a state or by a group such as Hamas and it is important to note that condemning one side's attrocites does not condone attrocities committed by the other side nor does the actions of a few merit hating all members of the racial / religious group they belong to.

I'll tell you one thing though:

If I was the soldier on the top of the Synagogue who was getting doused with paint all the way through the news coverage on Fox, some little twit would be looking for his nuts under his yomulka.

Those soldiers have my utmost respect.

 

[Lisa!]

It started well before that.

Yeah, but it wasn't like 20th century. I mean in a way that forse Jewish to live their homeland and decide to live some where else like Palestin.

Ever seen The Merchant of Venice?

Not yet, but I know the story.

 

[Art]

Yeah, but it wasn't like 20th century. I mean in a way that forse Jewish to live their homeland and decide to live some where else like Palestin.

It goes back way before the 20th century,

York's blackest day
Tainted city

In the century following the massacre, York's Jewish community reformed and became more wealthy, populous and active than ever before. Between 1210 and 1250, York's Jews sometimes contributed more in taxation than London! However, all of England's Jews were expelled by Edward II in 1290, during their years in exile accounts of the massacre in York established the city's notorious reputation.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/legacies/immig_emig/england/north_yorkshire/article_3.shtml

As far as I know the persecution of jews had little to do with their religion. It was more because for some reason a lot of them were involved in usury so often attacks on them were orchestrated as a way of borrowers avoiding having to repay a debt.

 

[Smurf]

Uhhhh... not to mention the whole enslaved in Egypt part... let's not forget that now.

 

[Lisa!]

It goes back way before the 20th century, http://www.bbc.co.uk/legacies/immig_emig/england/north_yorkshire/article_3.shtml

As far as I know the persecution of jews had little to do with their religion. It was more because for some reason a lot of them were involved in usury so often attacks on them were orchestrated as a way of borrowers avoiding having to repay a debt.

Ok, so it's time to ask why?