Understanding the Variation in Electricity Rates in England

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In summary, electricity rates in the UK vary during a 24-hour period, with higher costs during nighttime and lower costs during daytime. This is done to encourage the use of cheaper baseload power and discourage the use of peak load. However, some tariffs are now independent of time of usage. Power plants are typically set to run at constant output, resulting in wasted energy during periods of low demand. To address this, power companies offer cheaper rates at night to incentivize the use of electricity during off-peak hours. Hydro-power plants use water pumping as a way to store energy for use during peak demand periods. However, it is difficult to cheaply store large amounts of power. This practice is similar to pumping water back to a reservoir at
  • #1
jackson6612
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If my memory serves me right I recall once someone said something like that in England or the UK electricity rates varies during 24-hour period. It costs more during nighttime than during daytime. Is this true? What is the rationale behind this? Please let me know. Thanks.
 
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  • #2
I thought it cost less during nighttime to get more people to use it when demand was low.
 
  • #3
It's cheaper at night than at day.

In my flat in London, the maximum charge was 20p/kwh during the day (this was the peak rate), and 5p/kwh in the night.

I had peak, off peak and night.
 
  • #4
Some tarrifs are cheaper during the night to encourage use of cheaper baseload power and discourage use of peak load. However, most nowadays are independent of time of usage.
 
  • #5
brewnog said:
However, most nowadays are independent of time of usage.

Really?

All of the EDF rates I've seen covering the UK are time dependent, and I believe EON are also.

You can look up their prices on line. Night time is significantly cheaper than day time.
 
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  • #6
Thank you, Cobalt, Jared.

I have a 1,500W generator. When I only lit one bulb it runs lightly and obviously consumes less fuel. When I connected something rated about 1,000W it gets grumpy and consumes a lot of fuel.

They charge you high so that the electricity usage doesn't exceed the maximum output of a power plant.

But at night when the demand is less, the power plant would use less fuel (in case of hydro-power plants fuel would be water). That would mean they can use that saved fuel during the period of high demand. But perhaps power plants are set to run at constant power output. Suppose the constant power output of a power plant is 100MW and if the demand is around 70MW, then that would mean 30MW is being wasted.
 
  • #7
jarednjames said:
Really?

All of the EDF rates I've seen covering the UK are time dependent, and I believe EON are also.

You can look up their prices on line. Night time is significantly cheaper than day time.

They may infer it from typical use, but to actually measure and bill according to time of use you need a different meter type installing (like you did with Economy 7 back in the day). Obviously EDF would have to install such a meter to use such a scheme, but most don't do this.
 
  • #8
brewnog said:
They may infer it from typical use, but to actually measure and bill according to time of use you need a different meter type installing (like you did with Economy 7 back in the day). Obviously EDF would have to install such a meter to use such a scheme, but most don't do this.

Certainly, they use averaging for single dial meters, but now most new digital meters have at least 2, if not 3 dials / readings for the various tariffs.
 
  • #9
jackson6612 said:
I have a 1,500W generator. When I only lit one bulb it runs lightly and obviously consumes less fuel. When I connected something rated about 1,000W it gets grumpy and consumes a lot of fuel.

Yes
They charge you high so that the electricity usage doesn't exceed the maximum output of a power plant.

No
But at night when the demand is less, the power plant would use less fuel (in case of hydro-power plants fuel would be water). That would mean they can use that saved fuel during the period of high demand. But perhaps power plants are set to run at constant power output. Suppose the constant power output of a power plant is 100MW and if the demand is around 70MW, then that would mean 30MW is being wasted.

Power plant output is varied according to predicted demand.
 
  • #10
jackson6612 said:
But perhaps power plants are set to run at constant power output. Suppose the constant power output of a power plant is 100MW and if the demand is around 70MW, then that would mean 30MW is being wasted.
Coal and nuclear stations are most efficient when run near their full capacity - this is called baseline load.
Gas stations can turn on and off much more quickly but their fuel is more expensive.
So the power companies would like you to use the same amount of power all the time so they offer you it more cheaply at night when businesses don't want it - you can use this to heat tanks of hot water of storage heaters that you use during the day.

It's difficult to cheaply store large amounts of power, the best way is to pump water back up into a reservoir and then let it flow out again during the day when you need electricity.

When there were only a couple of TV channels and 20Million households were watching the same saturday night show there was a huge power demand at the end when everyone went to make a cup of tea (most kettles in the UK are electric)
 
  • #11
Thanks a lot, NBS. Your reply was really helpful.

It's difficult to cheaply store large amounts of power, the best way is to pump water back up into a reservoir and then let it flow out again during the day when you need electricity.

Couldn't a hydro-power plant adjust the output to the demand? Do hydro-plants actually implement this water pumping during the night?

Please guide me. Thanks.
 
  • #12
My electric bill is determined by Bistromathics the most powerful computational force known to parascience, thankfully explained by Douglas Adams. I am paying anywhere between two and twenty cents per kilowatt-hour, in humble terms. And probably both at the same time for the same Watt.
 
  • #13
jackson6612 said:
Couldn't a hydro-power plant adjust the output to the demand? Do hydro-plants actually implement this water pumping during the night?

Please guide me. Thanks.

Hydro plants pump the water up to a reservoir at night when electricity is cheap as a means of storing the energy to be used in the day.
 
  • #14
Where do they pump it back up
 
  • #15
I believe they pump it back to the reservoir. From less potential energy to the higher.

Best wishes
Jack
 
  • #16
EDF? As in Électricité de France? In the UK?
 
  • #17
I meant where , as in like us , uk , Because I am pretty sure they don't do that where i live .
 
  • #18
Vanadium 50 said:
EDF? As in Électricité de France? In the UK?

EDF is actually the biggest electricity generator in the UK. Quite a bit of energy is also imported from France. They took over a load of Southern power companies about 10 years ago.
 
  • #19
cragar said:
I meant where , as in like us , uk , Because I am pretty sure they don't do that where i live .

Well in places that have enough rainfall to keep the resevoirs topped up they don't need to.
 
  • #21
Vanadium 50 said:
EDF? As in Électricité de France? In the UK?

When the UK electricity and gas industries were privatized in the 1980s, the functions of generation/extraction, distribution, and supply (i.e. sales) were separated into different companies. For electricity there is one nationwide UK distribution company (National Grid) which provides and maintains the wires and charges the generation and supply companies to use them.

There are many different generation and supply companies. For electricity most of the large companies do both but the two functions are (at least theoretically) separate entities. Some supply companies simply buy energy from the generators and sell it on to consumers, and probably make most of their profits from trading the energy futures markets. There are many different tariffs available as there are suppliers (I don't know the exact number, but it's probably of the order of 20 or 30).

Every consumer (i.e. electricity meter) in the UK has its own unique identifier (which is a 20 digit number, so the system is plenty of room for future expansion!) and every user can buy power from pretty much any supply company, at the cheapest tariff that matches their pattern of usage. When prices change, you just shop around for the best deal (though the best deals available usually lock you into one supplier for a period of time).

This setup allows market competition without the nonsense of needing multiple networks of pipes and wires - which would obviously be as dumb as insisting that every car manufacturer built their own road network.

EDF (French) and E-ON (German) are both big players in the UK supply and generation markets. There is a significant amount of electricity traded between England and Europe via undersea cables.

The same principles apply to the gas market. At present I'm probably using Norwegian gas, sold to me by a French company. Isn't global capitalism wonderful!
 
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  • #22
Thank you, Brewnog, Aleph.

I have learned some news things from your replies.
 

Related to Understanding the Variation in Electricity Rates in England

1. What factors influence electricity rates in England?

Electricity rates in England are influenced by various factors such as the cost of generating electricity, government policies, infrastructure maintenance and upgrades, and the demand for electricity. Other factors include the type of energy source used, location, and market competition.

2. How are electricity rates determined in England?

The electricity rates in England are determined by the energy regulator, Ofgem, who sets a price cap for energy suppliers based on the cost of wholesale energy and other factors such as network costs and operating costs. Energy suppliers can then choose to set their own prices within this cap.

3. Are electricity rates in England increasing?

Yes, electricity rates in England have been increasing over the years due to various factors such as the rising cost of generating electricity, investment in renewable energy, and upgrades to the electricity network. However, the rate of increase is regulated by Ofgem to ensure fair pricing for consumers.

4. How do electricity rates in England compare to other countries?

Electricity rates in England are generally higher than the European average due to the country's reliance on imported energy sources and the cost of maintaining and upgrading the electricity network. However, rates in England are still lower than countries such as Germany and Denmark, who have higher renewable energy targets.

5. Can I switch my electricity supplier in England?

Yes, as a consumer in England, you have the right to choose your electricity supplier. You can switch to a different supplier if you find a better deal or if you are not satisfied with your current supplier. However, the switch may take a few weeks to process, and you may be subject to an exit fee if you are still in a contract with your current supplier.

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