Understanding Zee's QFT: Simplified Gauge Derivative Calculation on Page 236

  • Context: Graduate 
  • Thread starter Thread starter Bowles
  • Start date Start date
  • Tags Tags
    Qft
Click For Summary

Discussion Overview

The discussion centers on the calculation of the gauge derivative in polar coordinates as presented in Zee's "QFT in a Nutshell," specifically on page 236. Participants seek clarification on the derivation process and the manipulation of equations within the context of quantum field theory (QFT).

Discussion Character

  • Technical explanation
  • Conceptual clarification
  • Debate/contested
  • Meta-discussion

Main Points Raised

  • One participant expresses confusion regarding the transition to polar coordinates and the resulting gauge derivative in Zee's work.
  • Another participant provides a detailed breakdown of the equations involved, including the transformation of the gauge derivative and its implications for the Lagrangian.
  • Several participants discuss the lack of thorough explanations in QFT texts, including Zee and Peskin & Schroeder, particularly regarding the techniques needed to manipulate equations.
  • There is a mention of the challenges faced by beginners in understanding the prerequisites and the complexity of QFT texts.
  • Some participants share their experiences with different QFT texts, noting varying levels of clarity and helpfulness, particularly highlighting Greiner's approach as more accessible.
  • One participant suggests that taking a class may alleviate some difficulties, as professors can provide step-by-step guidance through complex calculations.
  • There is a request for assistance in locating Coleman’s lecture notes, indicating interest in alternative resources for learning QFT.

Areas of Agreement / Disagreement

Participants generally agree on the challenges posed by QFT texts and the need for clearer explanations of mathematical techniques. However, there are differing opinions on the effectiveness of specific texts, such as Peskin & Schroeder and Zee, and whether self-study or formal classes are more beneficial for understanding the material.

Contextual Notes

Participants note that the discussion involves various assumptions about the prerequisites for understanding QFT and the complexity of the mathematical techniques required. There is also an acknowledgment of the limitations in the explanations provided in the texts discussed.

Who May Find This Useful

This discussion may be useful for students and self-learners of quantum field theory, particularly those seeking clarification on gauge derivatives and the manipulation of equations, as well as those looking for recommendations on QFT textbooks.

Bowles
Messages
21
Reaction score
0
In Zee's QFT in a nutshell on page 236 between equations (1) and (2), the authors goes to polar coordinates and gets a new gauge derivative.Sure it 's simple, but I can't see how he gets it.

thanks for any help
 
Physics news on Phys.org
Make a printscreen and post it here to see what it's about.
 
Equation (1) is

\mathcal{L}=-\frac{1}{4}F_{\mu\nu}F^{\mu\nu}+\left(\mathcal{D}\phi\right)^\dagger\mathcal{D}\phi+\mu^2\phi^\dagger\phi-\lambda\let(\phi^\dagger\phi\right)^2\quad (1)

Polar coordinates means \phi=\rho e^{i\theta},\phi^\dagger=\rho e^{-i\theta}, thus

\mathcal{D}_\mu \phi=\left(\partial_\mu-i e A_\mu\right)\rho e^{i\theta}=\partial_\mu(\rho e^{i\theta})-i e A_\mu (\rho e^{i\theta})=(\partial_\mu \rho)e^{i\theta}+\rho i e^{i \theta}\partial_\mu \theta-i e A_\mu \rho e^{i\theta}=\left(\partial_\mu \rho+i\rho (\partial_\mu \theta-e A_\mu \right)e^{i\theta}

and

\left(\mathcal{D}_\mu \phi\right)^\dagger=}=\left(\partial_\mu \rho-i\rho (\partial_\mu \theta-e A_\mu \right)e^{-i\theta}

Plug the above equations into (1) and you will arrive at equation (2) of Zee's book.
 
muchísimas gracias, Rainbow Child!

Very much appreciated, your answer and your effort writting the latex code.

Unfortunately harmless looking equations like these above and all the little tricks you need to know to manipulate them are never explained proper in almost all QFT texts. Stellar example in this regard certainly Peskin&Schroeder, but also Zee lacks here.

Edit:granted, it's only silly product rule above, but why not pointing that out to the reader? Giving such small hints here and there would so much ease the pain reading QFT books!
 
Last edited:
Bowles said:
Unfortunately harmless looking equations like these above and all the little tricks you need to know to manipulate them are never explained proper in almost all QFT texts. Stellar example in this regard certainly Peskin&Schroeder, but also Zee lacks here.

Well, Zee is trying to cover a very large area with a broadbrush (as he explains very
clearly near the start of the book).

But what examples did you have in mind from Peskin&Schroeder? (I learned a lot by
self-studying P&S. Sure, it was hard at times, but there were only maybe one or two cases
where I had to beg others for help. Prof Peskin's online errata list was of course essential.)

Cheers.
 
But what examples did you have in mind from Peskin&Schroeder? (I learned a lot by
self-studying P&S. Sure, it was hard at times, but there were only maybe one or two cases
where I had to beg others for help. Prof Peskin's online errata list was of course essential.)

I know opinions differ on P&S, or on just any QFT texts in general. For me, P&S did not work. As I said before, what bothers me most with QFT texts is that they do not provide careful enough explanations of the little tricks and techniques to get from equation X to equation Y. Given that QFT is a big mix of group theory, complex integrals, Dirac delta functions, tensors, pertubation techniques and physical intuition, it is hard for the beginner to rearrange those equations.

Just look at P&S first chapter, every true beginner is just lost here! It is just a listing of equations and sentences like 'after some calculating it can be seen'. But this calculating includes residue calculus, branch cuts, dirac deltas, operators, surface integrals etc.
 
Bowles said:
Just look at P&S first chapter, every true beginner is just lost here! It is just a listing of equations and sentences like 'after some calculating it can be seen'. But this calculating includes residue calculus, branch cuts, dirac deltas, operators, surface integrals etc.
Hmmm, ok, I see what you mean. Every textbook is difficult if one is not yet proficient
in its prerequisites.

Have you tried Greiner's series of theoretical physics texts? He makes a large effort
not to commit the kind of sins you mention.
 
You right, Greiner is great at that, have not checked him lately, though. Of course not so beautifully streamlined like P&S, or so original, compact and 'big picture' like Zee.

Also heard a https://www.amazon.com/dp/0071543821/?tag=pfamazon01-20 book is coming out. Sounds like a book for dummies, so I will take look.
 
Last edited by a moderator:
Thats sort of the point of taking a class in it, where the proffessor actually does it step by step. Yes you can selfstudy, but going through each and every equation takes a tremendous amount of time and effort. Its worth doing it once for one book (eg most people do it with P&S or say with Coleman's lecture notes), but after awhile the algebra becomes rather tedious when you know the main results and have the physical intution behind you.

For instance, I do not remember the details of many of the calculations I once did, just the main results and perhaps the general scheme of how you derive the answer (eg I have to use an ellpitic integral for this problem, or here I must use dimensional regularization).
 
  • #10
I couldn't find Coleman's lecture notes. Can you help me with that?
 
  • #11
He might refer to Coleman's known book: "Aspects of symmetry".
 
  • #12
Masudr, look http://www2.physics.utoronto.ca/~luke/PHY2403/References.html" .
 
Last edited by a moderator:

Similar threads

  • · Replies 4 ·
Replies
4
Views
2K
  • · Replies 10 ·
Replies
10
Views
1K
  • · Replies 15 ·
Replies
15
Views
3K
  • · Replies 1 ·
Replies
1
Views
2K
  • · Replies 4 ·
Replies
4
Views
6K
  • · Replies 6 ·
Replies
6
Views
3K
  • · Replies 69 ·
3
Replies
69
Views
8K
  • · Replies 8 ·
Replies
8
Views
2K
  • · Replies 3 ·
Replies
3
Views
2K
  • · Replies 2 ·
Replies
2
Views
2K