Universal fractal structure and the infinite universe

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Discussion Overview

The discussion revolves around the concept of a universal fractal structure and its implications for the infinite nature of the universe, both at large and small scales. Participants explore theoretical possibilities related to fractal subdivision and its potential to challenge the notion of finite space.

Discussion Character

  • Exploratory
  • Debate/contested
  • Conceptual clarification

Main Points Raised

  • One participant proposes that fractal subdivision could theoretically allow for infinity to exist within finite space, suggesting that this might render the idea of finite space a myth.
  • Another participant questions the conclusion drawn from the initial statement, indicating that the relationship between fractals and the concept of finite space is not straightforward.
  • There is a suggestion that the universe may exhibit self-similar structures at various scales, potentially leading to the idea of a "super universe" composed of multiple universes.
  • One participant mentions the historical perspective of the Milky Way being considered the entirety of the universe, highlighting how our understanding has evolved with advancements in observational technology.
  • A later reply emphasizes that while the universe is observationally finite up to a certain point, extrapolating beyond that remains speculative.

Areas of Agreement / Disagreement

Participants express differing views on the implications of fractal structures for the nature of the universe, with some exploring the theoretical possibilities while others emphasize the limitations of current understanding and the speculative nature of extrapolating beyond observable evidence.

Contextual Notes

The discussion includes limitations regarding the assumptions made about the nature of space and the laws of physics, particularly in relation to fractal structures and their implications for both large and small scales.

Iam.HG
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Disclaimer: I am a science buff – not a scientist.

I am curious to know if there has ever been a theory developed about the infinite nature of the universe, large and small, relating to a fractal structure.

I was pondering fractal subdivision, and how it offers at least the theoretical possibility for infinity to exist within a seemingly finite space through continuous subdivision. Which if true, would in fact, render the whole idea of finite space, a myth.

I know that it has been jokingly said that inside each atom - could be a universe, and so, our universe could be just an atom ect.. ect. That is not what I am asking about.

However, it does seem obvious to the casual observer that the very small and the very large structures in our known universe seem to have a self similar and repetitive appearance. So if we are seeing a universal fractal structure, it possible that “the universe” is an ever enlarging set of structures that are self similar and repeating, continuing the similar design of our planetary systems, solar systems and galaxies?

Could the universe as we conceive of it, a mass of galaxies in an expanding space, merely be the next structure up? And then above that there is a super universe with a self similar in structure, which in turn is just one of billions of super-universes making up the next level?.. you see where I am going.

I seem to remember that the Milky Way Galaxy was once thought to be THE Universe. It was not that long ago. But then advanced telescopes revealed that what we thought of as THE UNIVERSE – was merely the next structure up from our solar system.

If it were true, that there is a universal fractal structure, of course it would follow that like the universe, the atom is infinitely structured downward - into sub particles which have a self similar structure. By that theory, quarks, not only would have, but must have sub particles, and those particles must have sub structure and so on.

I understand that these tiny substructures, like the massive ones, might not be subject to the same laws of physics as we understand, or as we have defined them - but that would be more of function of our understanding rather than anything else.

Anyway, I am just throwing this out for dissection and discussion.
 
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I was pondering fractal subdivision, and how it offers at least the theoretical possibility for infinity to exist within a seemingly finite space through continuous subdivision. Which if true, would in fact, render the whole idea of finite space, a myth.

I don't think your conclusion follows from your statement. But the whole area of fractals IS enough to give one considerable pause...

See this article as an example...

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/How_Lo...ical_Self-Similarity_and_Fractional_Dimension

You might also find this read of interest:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fractal_geometry

Also, NOVA (PBS science TV in the USA) is currently running an hour program on fractals ..I only saw a biological segment but it was interesting...has the word FRACTALS in the title,,,

enjoy
 
We know with fair certainty the universe is observationally finite - at least back to the surface of last scattering [~ 400,000 years after the big bang]. All bets are off at that point. Extrapolating beyond that is currently little more than speculation.
 

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