Universe of indistinguishable quanta?

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Discussion Overview

The discussion revolves around the concept of whether the universe could consist solely of indistinguishable particles, particularly focusing on the nature of fundamental particles and the role of photons in the cosmos. Participants explore theoretical implications, historical perspectives, and various models related to fundamental particles.

Discussion Character

  • Exploratory
  • Debate/contested
  • Conceptual clarification
  • Technical explanation

Main Points Raised

  • Some participants question the intent behind the idea of a universe made up of identical particles, suggesting it may be an absurd proposition.
  • There is a discussion about whether photons could be considered fundamental particles, with some participants asking for clarification on the definition of "fundamental particle."
  • One participant references Roger Penrose's interpretation that photons were predominant during the big bang, raising the question of whether all particles could be combinations of photons.
  • Others argue that while photons are fundamental in certain contexts, they do not constitute the building blocks of matter, as planets and living beings are not made of photons.
  • String theory is introduced as a potential framework for understanding fundamental particles, positing that all particles arise from vibrating strings, though it is noted that this theory is still under development and lacks empirical testing.
  • Participants express interest in further reading, including references to Brian Greene's "The Elegant Universe" and the concept of a "one-electron universe."

Areas of Agreement / Disagreement

Participants do not reach a consensus on the nature of fundamental particles or the validity of the idea that the universe could consist solely of indistinguishable particles. Multiple competing views remain, particularly regarding the role of photons and the implications of string theory.

Contextual Notes

Participants express uncertainty about the definitions and implications of fundamental particles, and there are unresolved questions regarding the relationship between photons and other particles. The discussion reflects a variety of interpretations and theoretical frameworks without definitive conclusions.

Who May Find This Useful

This discussion may be of interest to those exploring theoretical physics, particularly concepts related to fundamental particles, cosmology, and string theory.

Loren Booda
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Could our cosmos consist of only identical particles?
 
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What exactly do you mean?
 
I agree w/ Drakkith. What DO you mean? On the face of it, this seems to be an absurd question so we're probably not getting your intent.
 
For instance, is it possible that photons are the fundamental particles? Please tell me briefly why if not.
 
Because electrons, quarks, neutrino's, W and Z bosons along with gluons also appear fundamental in the sense they have no detectable internal structure.
 
Loren Booda said:
For instance, is it possible that photons are the fundamental particles? Please tell me briefly why if not.

What IS it that you mean when you say "fundamental particle"? It seems that you are using this term in some way other than the way it is used in physics. Are you asking is it possible that ALL particles are just combinations of photons?
 
phinds said:
Are you asking is it possible that ALL particles are just combinations of photons?
Yes.

During the big bang, at extremely high temperatures, I interpreted that photons are the predominant particle, according to Roger Penrose in his "Road to Reality."
 
Loren Booda said:
Yes.

During the big bang, at extremely high temperatures, I interpreted that photons are the predominant particle, according to Roger Penrose in his "Road to Reality."

If there were still nothing but photons, then there would be nothing but photons. We are not made of photons. Planets are not made of photons. NOTHING is made of photons except photons (light).
 
Many people are pursuing string theory as a solution to the fundamental particle. String theory suggests that absolutely everything is made up of vibrating bands of energy, called strings, and that these vibrations are responsible for all particles, such as photons, electrons, gluons, quarks, etc. Brian Green's The Elegant Universe talks about strings in depth, and is worth reading. Note, however, that String Theory is still undergoing development, not to mention wait for a viable means of testing, and is therefore relegated to academics only at this point.
 
  • #10
mjacobsca said:
Many people are pursuing string theory as a solution to the fundamental particle. String theory suggests that absolutely everything is made up of vibrating bands of energy, called strings, and that these vibrations are responsible for all particles, such as photons, electrons, gluons, quarks, etc. Brian Green's The Elegant Universe talks about strings in depth, and is worth reading. Note, however, that String Theory is still undergoing development, not to mention wait for a viable means of testing, and is therefore relegated to academics only at this point.

You got me back on track. Thanks for your worthwhile answer. The Elegant Universe it is. (I believe I saw Greene's show on TV, too.)
 

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