Unnecessary Pump in a Frictionless Pipe: Impact on Pressure and Work

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Discussion Overview

The discussion revolves around the implications of installing a pump in a frictionless pipe where it is deemed unnecessary. Participants explore the energy balance and pressure changes associated with the pump's operation, particularly in the context of Bernoulli's equation and the effects on fluid dynamics.

Discussion Character

  • Exploratory
  • Technical explanation
  • Debate/contested

Main Points Raised

  • One participant questions whether the energy balance implies that the fluid experiences friction inside the pump equivalent to the head provided by the pump.
  • Another participant challenges the notion of energy balance and its relation to friction.
  • A third participant proposes using Bernoulli's equation to analyze the pressure and velocity before and after the pump, suggesting that if the pump is not needed, the head produced by the pump equals the friction it introduces.
  • A later reply indicates that if the pressure before and after the pump is equal, it suggests that the pump does no work, but raises a scenario where an unneeded pump increases pressure while maintaining velocity due to a flow regulator.

Areas of Agreement / Disagreement

Participants express differing views on the implications of pressure and energy balance in the context of the pump's necessity. There is no consensus on whether the pump's operation can be justified or what the implications of its presence are.

Contextual Notes

Participants do not fully resolve the assumptions regarding the conditions under which the pump operates, particularly concerning the definitions of work and energy balance in a frictionless scenario.

msanx2
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Imagine a pump is installed in a pipe where there would be no need for it (no friction, no height difference, etc.). In order for the energy balance to be correct, does this imply that the fluid would experience friction inside the pump the same as the head provided by the pump?
 
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What energy balance ? Does it show anything with friction ?
 
Suppose I would use Bernoulli equation to compare point 1 before the pump and point 2 after the pump:

$$ \frac{P_{1}}{\rho g} + \frac{v_{1}^2}{2g} + z_{1} + \Delta h_{p}= \frac{P_{2}}{\rho g} + \frac{v_{2}^2}{2g} + z_{2} + \Delta h_{f} $$

By the continuity equation, $$ v_{1} = v_{2} $$

Moreover, neglecting the pressure drop across the pump, $$ P_{1} = P_{2} $$

So, the previous equation becomes:
$$ \Delta h_{p}= \Delta h_{f} $$

If this analysis is correct, does it show that, when a pump is not needed (no energy input would be needed to overcome any fittings or friction in the pipe), the head that it produces is the same as the possible friction that it produces? I'm imagining this situation as if the pump stops the fluid and accelerates it again.

Thanks!
 
##P_{1} = P_{2}## is a show stopper: it means the pump does no work. Conversely, if ##P_{1} < P_{2}## the pump does ##pV## work

I get the feeling I misunderstand your scenario: if there is a flow regulator further down the pipe and an unneeded pump is installed and turned on, the velocity stays the same but the pressure increases. Does that qualify ?
 

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