Using SR & Curved Coordinates for Time Calculation

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Discussion Overview

The discussion revolves around the calculation of proper time in an accelerated frame of reference, exploring whether special relativity (SR) can be applied using curved coordinates instead of general relativity (GR). Participants seek clarification on the use of Lorentz transformations in this context and the necessary formulas for integration.

Discussion Character

  • Exploratory
  • Technical explanation
  • Debate/contested

Main Points Raised

  • One participant suggests that proper time can be calculated using SR with curved coordinates, seeking references for the relevant formulas.
  • Another participant refers to a Wikipedia article, indicating that the arc length and proper time can be expressed in terms of the chosen coordinates.
  • A different participant argues that Lorentz transformations do not apply to curved coordinates and states that proper time for accelerated observers can be computed without them, using a specific integral formula.
  • Further clarification is provided that if velocity in an inertial coordinate system is known, the relationship between coordinate time and proper time can be established through integration.

Areas of Agreement / Disagreement

Participants express differing views on the necessity of using GR versus SR for calculating proper time in accelerated frames. There is no consensus on the applicability of Lorentz transformations in this context, and the discussion remains unresolved.

Contextual Notes

Participants mention the need for specific formulas and the definitions of terms like arc length and proper time, indicating potential limitations in the discussion regarding assumptions and mathematical steps.

sqljunkey
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Someone told me that I don't need the whole mechanics of GR to be able to calculate the proper time in an accelerated frame of reference. I can just use SR but with curved coordinates and then integrate for time. But he didn't give me a reference where I could find the formula to do this. How do you use Lorentz transformation with curved coordinates? Is this true? Anyone has a reference for it?

Thanks
 
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sqljunkey said:
Someone told me that I don't need the whole mechanics of GR to be able to calculate the proper time in an accelerated frame of reference. I can just use SR but with curved coordinates and then integrate for time. But he didn't give me a reference where I could find the formula to do this.
You can use equation 2 here:

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Proper_time

You need to have ##ds^2## which is known as the arc length, as well P, both in terms of the chosen coordinates.
 
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sqljunkey said:
How do you use Lorentz transformation with curved coordinates?
You don't. The Lorentz transformation is, by definition, a transformation between inertial frames. However, you do not even need curvilinear coordinates to compute proper times of accelerated observers. You can just apply
$$
\tau = \int_{t_1}^{t_2} \sqrt{1 - v(t)^2/c^2}\, dt.
$$
However, you can of course define a coordinate system where your accelerated observer is at rest, but you do not need to.
 
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In case Orodruin's answer isn't clear, he is noting that if your velocity in some inertial coordinate system is ##v## at coordinate time ##t## then in the elementary time from ##t## to ##t+dt## your clock advances ##d\tau=dt/\gamma##, then integrating. Or you can start from the expression for the interval and get the same result.
 
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