UV mercury lamps: Changing the 185nm vs 253.7nm ratio

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Discussion Overview

The discussion revolves around the emission characteristics of UV mercury lamps, specifically the ratio of emitted radiation at 185 nm versus 253.7 nm. Participants explore potential methods to alter this ratio, including heating the discharge tube and modifying operational parameters such as pressure and voltage. The conversation includes theoretical considerations and implications of atomic transitions versus blackbody radiation.

Discussion Character

  • Exploratory, Technical explanation, Debate/contested

Main Points Raised

  • Some participants note that 85% to 90% of UV produced by mercury lamps is at 253.7 nm, with only 5–10% at 185 nm, and inquire about methods to increase the 185 nm output without using filters.
  • One participant suggests that heating the discharge tube may not significantly alter the emission ratio, as the vaporized mercury is already at a high temperature due to electric discharge.
  • Another participant mentions that while heating could slightly affect the population of excited states, the extreme temperature required for significant changes (around 80000 K) is impractical.
  • A later reply questions the assumption that mercury atoms are in thermal equilibrium, suggesting that the electric discharge creates a non-thermal equilibrium situation.
  • One participant introduces the idea of lowering pressure in the discharge tube and increasing AC voltage to promote higher energy transitions, while another questions the relevance of blackbody radiation in this context.
  • There is a discussion about the implications of shifting the blackbody peak and how it relates to the desired emission ratio, with some arguing that it would also increase the unwanted 253.7 nm output.
  • Participants express curiosity about the effects of driving the discharge tube with high voltage pulses compared to standard AC operation.

Areas of Agreement / Disagreement

Participants express differing views on the effectiveness of heating the discharge tube and the relevance of blackbody radiation in altering the emission ratio. There is no consensus on the best method to achieve a higher 185 nm output, and multiple competing ideas are presented.

Contextual Notes

Participants acknowledge that the emission spectrum of a mercury lamp is primarily due to atomic transitions rather than blackbody radiation, and that significant changes to the emission ratio may require conditions that are not practically achievable.

neanderthalphysics
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According to Wikipedia,
From 85% to 90% of the UV produced by these lamps is at 253.7 nm, whereas only 5–10% is at 185 nm.
(citation needed)

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ultraviolet

What would alter this proportion of emitted radiation to favor more 185nm radiation?

Preferably not with a filter that filters out 253.7nm (mathematically would also increase the ratio of radiance of 185nm:253.7nm) but an option that causes an increase in intensity of emitted 185nm radiation.

Would heating the discharge tube alter the ratio of emitted radiation, all other things being equal?
 
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neanderthalphysics said:
Would heating the discharge tube alter the ratio of emitted radiation, all other things being equal?
Probably not. As I understand it, the emission lines are produced by electric discharge that vaporizes and ionizes the mercury. Providing external heat won't do much as the vaporized mercury is already "hot". If your goal is to actually increase the 185 nm component at the expense of the 253.7 nm, i.e. in a zero sum situation, I believe it cannot be done without changing the quantum transition probabilities which, as far as I know, are not externally controllable.
 
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neanderthalphysics said:
Would heating the discharge tube alter the ratio of emitted radiation, all other things being equal?

A tiny bit. Both transitions are to the same daughter state (6s 1S0), so it's a question of populating the (6p 1P1) parent state (relatively) more than the lower energy state (6s 3P1). Increasing T will do this, but T for 185 nm is about 80000 K. And you're not going to increase the heat much compared to 80000 K.
 
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Vanadium 50 said:
A tiny bit. Both transitions are to the same daughter state (6s 1S0), so it's a question of populating the (6p 1P1) parent state more than the lower energy state (6s 3P1). Increasing T will do this, but T for 185 ns is about 80000 K. And you're not going to increase the heat much compared to 80000 K.

I have a question, what does the aSb and aPb notation mean?
 
Vanadium 50 said:
A tiny bit. Both transitions are to the same daughter state (6s 1S0), so it's a question of populating the (6p 1P1) parent state (relatively) more than the lower energy state (6s 3P1). Increasing T will do this, but T for 185 nm is about 80000 K. And you're not going to increase the heat much compared to 80000 K.
Doesn't this assume that the mercury atoms are in thermal equilibrium with a reservoir at some temperature T? I was under the impression that the electric discharge creates a non-thermal equilibrium situation where ionized atoms in various excited states continuously recombine with electrons, are re-ionized and so on. Why would ##\frac{N_i}{N}=e^{\text{-}\frac{E_i}{kT}}## be meaningful in this case?
 
Thanks for the input, everyone.

According to the blackbody calculator linked at the end of this post, the blackbody radiation peak for 185nm is found at 15650K. Therefore, in theory, would the maximum 185nm:253.7nm emission ratio, all other things being equal, be found at 15650K? How did you calculate the 80000K figure, Vanadium?

Kuruman, I think it changes the ratio a bit because heating shifts the black body peak.

What about if you lower the pressure in the discharge tube and increase the AC voltage? Will this cause more higher energy transitions to occur?

What about if you drove the discharge tube like a flash tube but with high voltage pulses? What would the spectral distribution look like in a high voltage flash, compared to a lower voltage AC mode of operation?

https://www.spectralcalc.com/blackbody_calculator/blackbody.php
 
The spectrum of a mercury lamp is not the result of blackbody radiation but of atomic transitions as @Vanadium 50 indicated. If you try to convert a mercury lamp into a blackbody radiator at 15,650 K, you will melt vaporize it long before it reaches the desired temperature. I don't see the relevance of a blackbody radiator which gives you a continuous spectrum at any temperature. Shifting the peak closer to 185 nm will give you more of the 185 nm that you want but will also give you much more of the 253.7 nm that you don't want.

What are you trying to do anyway? What is your ultimate goal?
 
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kuruman said:
Doesn't this assume

It would if it were an actual calculation. It just shows that the order of magnitude is such that changes on the scale of tens of kelvins - or even many tens of kelvins - are tiny compared to the scale of the problem.

It's like someone planning on jumping over a skyscraper. We can discuss the properties of various kinds of shoes, but they really don't make a difference.

neanderthalphysics said:
How did you calculate the 80000K figure, Vanadium?

6.7 eV / (300K = 1/40 eV).

By far the easiest thing to do is filter the low frequency light and if it's not bright enough, buy more bulbs.
 
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  • #11
@kuruman, yes you're right about the standard mode of operation of a UV mercury lamp, but because I was asking about modifications you could do to the lamp to make it emit more 185nm UV, I included heating and therefore blackbody radiation.

Ultimately the spectra you get from the UV lamp is a superposition of the atomic transitions + blackbody radiation, but as we have seen, the blackbody radiation effect is small at "reasonable" temperatures.

Just asking questions re: heating of the lamps or using high voltage pulses through the mercury discharge tubes to expand my understanding.
 

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