Values of constants in power-law fluid relation

Click For Summary

Discussion Overview

The discussion revolves around the values of constants in the power-law fluid relation, specifically focusing on how these constants behave for ideal fluids, Newtonian fluids, and non-Newtonian fluids. Participants explore the implications of these constants in the context of fluid mechanics and rheology.

Discussion Character

  • Exploratory
  • Technical explanation
  • Debate/contested
  • Mathematical reasoning

Main Points Raised

  • Some participants propose that for an ideal fluid, the constant A should be 0, while the values of B and n remain unspecified.
  • Others argue that for a Newtonian fluid, A is unspecified, B is unspecified, and n should equal 1 based on experimental observations.
  • It is suggested that for a non-Newtonian fluid, A is unspecified, B is unspecified, and n should not equal 1.
  • A participant questions the clarity of the original question, suggesting that without accurate formulation, obtaining answers is challenging.
  • Another participant emphasizes the importance of understanding viscosity and its relation to the constants, particularly B, in different types of non-Newtonian fluids.
  • One participant mentions that the equation presented may not represent the power-law fluid model but rather the Herschel-Bulkley model for Bingham plastics.
  • A later reply suggests that the general equation for non-Newtonian fluids is more complex than initially stated, indicating that τ is a monotonic odd function of its argument.

Areas of Agreement / Disagreement

Participants express varying levels of understanding and clarity regarding the constants A, B, and n. There is no consensus on the specific values of these constants, and multiple competing views remain regarding their definitions and implications in different fluid types.

Contextual Notes

Participants note that the discussion is limited by the need for clearer formulations of the questions posed and the dependence on definitions of fluid types and their behaviors. There are unresolved aspects regarding the mathematical representation of the constants in relation to different fluid behaviors.

JamesBennettBeta
Messages
10
Reaction score
1
NO TEMPLATE, MISPLACED HOMEWORK

Summary: What are the values of constants in power-law fluid relation when the fluid behaves as an ideal fluid, a Newtonian fluid and a non-Newtonian fluid?

τ = A(du/dy)^n +B

Where A, B and n are constants that depend upon the type of fluid and conditions imposed
on the flow. Comment on the value of these constants so that the fluid may behave as:
  1. an ideal fluid
  2. a Newtonian fluid
  3. a non-Newtonian fluid
 
Last edited by a moderator:
Physics news on Phys.org
Which constants are you talking about?
 
vanhees71 said:
Which constants are you talking about?
I updated the information. I spent a day reading and searing whole internet and still couldn't get the answers.
 
JamesBennettBeta said:
I updated the information. I spent a day reading and searing whole internet and still couldn't get the answers.
Tell us about your thinking so far.
 
1. A=0 B=? n=?
In an ideal fluid the viscosity should be equal to zero.

2. A=? B=? n=1
In a Newtonian fluid the flow behavior index is equal to 1 (Experimentally)

3. A=? B=? n≠1
In a non-Newtonian fluid the flow behavior index is bot equal to 1

This is the far that I could understand.
 
I still have no clue which parameters these should be. If you do not even formulate the question accurately, how can you expect to find an answer or get one from us?
 
vanhees71 said:
I still have no clue which parameters these should be. If you do not even formulate the question accurately, how can you expect to find an answer or get one from us?
I updated the information.

Formula is
τ = A(du/dy)^n +B,

constants are A, B and n
 
JamesBennettBeta said:
I updated the information. I spent a day reading and searing whole internet and still couldn't get the answers.
Probably because you have to digest the information that you were reading.

Start with understanding viscosity.
What is viscosity?
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/ViscosityUsually the definition is given in terms of understanding a Newtonian fluid.

There is a picture under the heading Newtonian and non-Newtonian fluids showing some fluids under shear stress. What does that tell you? especially about your constant B.
What would B be for " normal" shear thinning and shear thickening non-Newtonian fluids?
What about a Bingham plastic - what is its B?

Also,
What do you think B represents after figuring out the above?

What can you say about the constant "n" then , for Newtonian, shear thinning/thickening fluids?
ie slope is constant, slope increasing, slope decreasing.

You can also look at the Wikii on power law fluids.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Power-law_fluid
Your answer to items 1 and 2 should a singlet.
The answer to item 3 can become more involved depending on type on non-Newtonian fluid you wish to describe.

( By the way, I think your equation is not necessarily the equation for the fluid power law, but that the Herschel-Bulkley Model for Bingham Plastics, as seen in the figure )
 
JamesBennettBeta said:
1. A=0 B=? n=?
In an ideal fluid the viscosity should be equal to zero.

2. A=? B=? n=1
In a Newtonian fluid the flow behavior index is equal to 1 (Experimentally)

3. A=? B=? n≠1
In a non-Newtonian fluid the flow behavior index is bot equal to 1

This is the far that I could understand.
In my expert judgment (my PhD thesis was in viscoelastic fluids/rheology), these answers are all correct, except that, in the case of a general non-Newtonian fluid, the general equation is more like ##\tau=\tau(du/dy)## where ##\tau## is a monotonic odd function of its argument.
 
Last edited:

Similar threads

Replies
31
Views
4K
  • · Replies 1 ·
Replies
1
Views
2K
  • · Replies 8 ·
Replies
8
Views
19K
Replies
22
Views
4K
  • · Replies 18 ·
Replies
18
Views
2K
  • · Replies 42 ·
2
Replies
42
Views
5K
  • · Replies 4 ·
Replies
4
Views
3K
  • · Replies 1 ·
Replies
1
Views
3K
  • · Replies 1 ·
Replies
1
Views
2K
  • · Replies 3 ·
Replies
3
Views
2K