Variation of Ricci scalar wrt derivative of metric

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Discussion Overview

The discussion revolves around the variation of the Ricci scalar with respect to the derivative of the metric tensor in the context of general relativity. Participants explore the mathematical expressions related to the Einstein-Hilbert action and seek resources for further understanding of such variations.

Discussion Character

  • Technical explanation, Conceptual clarification, Meta-discussion

Main Points Raised

  • One participant states the identity relating the variation of the Ricci scalar to the Ricci tensor, questioning the variation with respect to the derivative of the metric tensor.
  • Another participant expresses uncertainty about the validity of the first identity and notes the complexity of the second variation, suggesting it is not a tensor and thus difficult to derive.
  • A third participant provides a link to the Wikipedia entry on the Einstein-Hilbert action, clarifying that the variation of the Ricci scalar with respect to the inverse metric is a somewhat informal expression that may not be well-received in mathematical contexts.
  • There is a suggestion that reliable resources for such expressions might be scarce, with a recommendation to refer to textbooks for a better understanding.
  • A later reply indicates that the original poster no longer needs the expression, having realized a misunderstanding between using the Euler-Lagrange equation and performing the variation manually.

Areas of Agreement / Disagreement

Participants do not reach a consensus on the validity of the initial identity or the complexity of the variation with respect to the derivative of the metric. Uncertainty remains regarding the availability of reliable resources for such expressions.

Contextual Notes

Participants express varying levels of confidence in the mathematical identities discussed, with some acknowledging the informal nature of certain expressions and the potential for confusion in their application.

jcap
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I understand from the wiki entry on the Einstein-Hilbert action that:
$$\frac{\delta R}{\delta g^{\mu\nu}}=R_{\mu\nu}$$
What is the following?
$$\frac{\delta R}{\delta(\partial_\lambda g^{\mu\nu})}$$
Is there a place I could look up such GR expressions on the internet?
Thanks
 
Last edited:
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I'm not sure about your first identity. For the second: I wouldn't know where to find such a monster. It's not a tensor, so you cannot use clever guesswork to derive its form. Maybe someone else knows.
 
jcap said:
the wiki entry on the Einstein-Hilbert action

I assume you mean this?

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Einstein–Hilbert_action

jcap said:
$$\frac{\delta R}{\delta g^{\mu\nu}}=R_{\mu\nu}$$

This is a somewhat sloppy (i.e., many physicists are OK with it but many mathematicians get ulcers from looking at things like it) way of saying that the variation of the Ricci scalar ##R## with respect to the inverse metric ##g^{\mu \nu}## is the Ricci tensor ##R_{\mu \nu}##.

jcap said:
What is the following?
$$\frac{\delta R}{\delta(\partial_\lambda g^{\mu\nu})}$$

Where are you seeing this expression? I don't see it in the Wikipedia article.

jcap said:
Is there a place I could look up such GR expressions on the internet?

I have no idea, but even if there is one, I'm not sure how reliable it would be. The best way to learn what such expressions mean is to look at things called "textbooks".
 
It's ok - I've discovered I don't need this expression. I got confused between using an Euler-Lagrange equation and doing the variation by hand.

Thanks! :)
 
Last edited:

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